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[Music]

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now here's gene Steinberg

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[Music]

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before I introduce my co-hosts and our

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special guests for this episode we have

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a really good announcement to make you

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know one of the dreams of someone who

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produces and hosts a radio show is wider

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distribution and we've been doing it

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online for a number of years I have the

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tech night out live which has been

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online since 2003 we were a podcast

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before there was such a thing as a

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podcast really about a year earlier than

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the podcast phenomenon started the

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podcast has been around since February

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of 2006 now we're going to be syndicated

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what that means is the show will still

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be available online still be available

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for live streaming still for on-demand

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streaming when you click on the little

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player window on our sites you'll be

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able to hear the show you'll be able to

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download it to your ipod or even your

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Zune player for those three or four of

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you who use them players but we will

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also be available on terrestrial radio

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and if they pick us up satellite radio

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as well the networking deal is gonna

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start and about them off okay we'll have

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more information than I wanted to give

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you a heads up and heads up we have

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three terrific people here our co-host

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I'll mention their names in alphabetical

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order because we don't want the egos to

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clash we don't normally don't have two

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co-hosts in the same episode we have

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Paul Kimball yay and we had Chris

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O'Brien mm-hmm and that's Chris

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O'Brien's beard by the way talking I'm

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sorry about that the devil made me do it

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that's what good editing software's for

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we can take out uncomfortable pauses

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right we take out the uncomfortable

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pauses but leave out you

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excessive pauses bad words but

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embarrassing statements they stay right

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in folks especially mine that's that

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Borden absolutely our special guest

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Kevin Randle has been on the show before

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but now he has a new book out called

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crash UFOs fall from the sky now the

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obvious question the elephant in the

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room Kevin is how much of this is about

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Roswell very much at all

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Roswell of course is an important part

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of a discussion of UFO crashes but it's

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covered so well in so many other arenas

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that what I've done here is just kind of

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updated the information I had about

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Roswell give some of the basics of

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course and updated some of the

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information I had to bring it in the

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2010 but Roswell is not the big story in

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the book I think expert actually takes

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up more pages so so Roswell is covered

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but it's not the majority of the bar

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okay so the publicity sheet that came

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from the agency that works with your

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publishers said late-breaking

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information on the controversial Roswell

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UFO crash what's the late-breaking

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information Kevin I think we're just

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looking at some of them the new

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witnesses that have come out in the last

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few months looked at some of the what

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people have been talking about the real

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problem that the Roswell case at this

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point is it's so old now that the

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firsthand witnesses have pretty much

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died off so we have very few new

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witnesses one of the things that we did

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do is talk in his book and suggested

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that Frank Iero testimony could be

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rejected because he'd talked to three

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firefighters with the Roswell fire

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department and they said no it didn't

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they didn't go out on the run it didn't

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happen I had an opportunity we interview

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one of those guys who was like 900 years

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old crotchety old man and he was giving

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me basically the same information he'd

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given car lock until I asked him a

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specific question I said did you know

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Dan Dwyer who was Frankie rose father

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and he said yes and then he said he

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drove out to the crash site in his

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private car

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so the reason you don't get any

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information about why the fire or

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information from the fire department

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about what they did when they went out

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there or making the run outside the city

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is Thank You rose father had gone out on

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his own so here's a firefighter that

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that Carl had interviewed and said that

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he kind of rejects the the Frank Iero

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testimony and I just wonder if Carl

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didn't ask the one question that I did

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that opened the whole door for me which

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was giddy node and wire and he talked

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about a colonel who come out to the fire

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department and I don't know why that's

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always a colonel why couldn't be a major

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or a captain but colonel came out and

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said you don't need to do anything we've

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got this covered don't bother going out

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there and then Dan Dwyer goes out in his

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in his personal car so that would be

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among the late-breaking new things today

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I got that information like six months a

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year ago something about a year ago Paul

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you want to follow up with that because

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you've been skeptical of Roswell

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no I don't talk about all I said Kevin

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an email to that effect you didn't get

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that Kevin blame your PR people guys

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because the PR people made that the

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first bullet point and I said okay this

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has got to be important yes there's a

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small portion of material in the book

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but let's emphasize that you know what

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let's move away from Roswell and then

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I'll ask you the other question one

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thing to kind of kind of ease Paul's

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mind what this new information does is

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not necessarily move wazzle into the

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extra-terrestrial it merely suggested

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Frank Iero was telling the truth that

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she knew it the Frankie rose not lying

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but that doesn't mean what fell it was

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it was extraterrestrial look let me ask

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you this questions Kevin would know I'm

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sure because we're friends and we both

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have the same general weird sense of

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humor I'm sure he knows that was more or

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less just joking and this is on more let

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me ask you about Roswell Kevin but not

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Roswell let me ask you about another

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alleged crash that you talked about in

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your book from the version of your book

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that I have page 94 to 100 san agustin

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the supposed crash on the plains of san

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agustin I've been there I don't know why

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anybody would want to crash in san

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agustin on the

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Planes so sort of desolate area but

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assuming somebody did as Stan Friedman

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and a few others who still believe in

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the mj-12 documents to talk a bit about

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the crash at the plains the alleged

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crash at the plains of san agustin what

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you think of it because you talk about

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it at some length in your book

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the search for reliable witnesses the

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story and also whether you're not sure

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whether you're familiar with it or not

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but Anthony Braga Lea has written

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recently at the UFO iconoclast I think

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it's the most recent post on their blog

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UFO conduct blog spot.com he's tried to

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resurrect the san agustin crash and say

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that there's plenty of credible

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witnesses and it did happen so perhaps

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you can talk about the lesser-known

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Roswell incident as it were say there

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are no witnesses to the san agustin

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crash there are secondhand testimonies

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and all of them are traceable back to

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Barney Barnett there is nothing that

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connects the Barnett the alleged Barnett

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sighting to the Roswell case of 1947

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with absolutely nothing

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what we do know and what it was

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important here Gerald Anderson who is

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who appeared after the unsolved

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mysteries broadcast of the Roswell case

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said that he had been on the stat planes

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of san agustin and he knew who the

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archaeologist was it was this doctor

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Buskirk well we found Buskirk who was

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inconveniently alive and it turned out

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to be anderson high school anthropology

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teacher and Buskirk says no in the

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summer of 1947 I was working on my PhD

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thesis on at the at the Apache Indian

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Reservation Mescalero Indian Reservation

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in Arizona he didn't have time for what

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he called the archeological sideshows

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we've also found out that Herbert dick

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who was a another anthropologist

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archaeologist was doing a survey of bat

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cave which is on the eastern side of the

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plains of San Agustin but in view of the

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area that Andersen said the same crash

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that it got there on July 1st and he

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would have been ething that happened

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Mike Anderson said he would have been in

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a position to see it and he didn't we

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can now prove he was there on July 1st

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because we found the documentation for

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Barney Barnett's tale as told by Vern

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Maltese it was a very nice man and I

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talked to him repeatedly

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Harold Baca who lived near Bonnie

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Barnett in Socorro in the 1960s a fellow

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named William Leeds who apparently girl

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retired I believe he's now a retired

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military officer who talked to Barnett

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and allegedly Barnett told him the story

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of the UFO crash at that time but the

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problem is it's all secondhand and the

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other problem is Ruth Barnett Barney's

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wife apparently kept a diary for one

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year somebody given her a daily reminder

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book and she kept a diary religiously

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for a year of 1947 and in July of 1947

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there's absolutely nothing in that diary

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to fix that suggested body by that was

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involved in any sort of spaceship

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retrieval so where we are is and the one

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thing they can't do is connect the

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Barnett tale to 1947

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Harold Baca who allegedly did this

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originally I talked to and when I talked

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to him I could have got him to confess

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to any crime I wanted to because the guy

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was really old and had no real idea of

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when these events took place

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so we have the Barnett tail sort of

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unanchored floating around New Mexico at

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some point the documentation available

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suggests that nothing happened on the

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plains of san agustin the anderson

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testimony we've caught anderson and i

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say this repeatedly in the hopes he'll

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sue me lied about it there was that

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anderson was not there he took the

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high-school anthropology class which he

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denies from from Buskirk which is how we

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knew an anthropologist named Buskirk the

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description anderson had been a police

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officer and he put together identikit

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catch a bus Kirk which is really telling

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because in 1957 when Anderson would have

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known Buskirk he was much heavier had a

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much fuller faced in the Buskirk of 1947

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so if anderson is describing Buskirk in

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1947 he got the he got the description

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wrong it's clearly Buskirk in 1957

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and a number of people who knew busker

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recognized the sketch immediately so

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where we are in san agustin is there's

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no credible evidence anywhere that

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something happened in July of 1947 there

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is not a single first-hand witness to an

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event on the plains talking today with

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the exception of Gerald Anderson who has

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spun so many tails we don't know where

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the truth lies with him yeah and you can

271
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say Roswell or the corona incident

272
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:41,140
perhaps as it might be better called

273
00:11:45,450 --> 00:11:43,090
for whichever spawn the desert you want

274
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:45,460
to pick but almost everybody in fact I

275
00:11:49,890 --> 00:11:47,410
don't know anybody who disputes that

276
00:11:53,010 --> 00:11:49,900
something happened in quote quote or

277
00:11:54,300 --> 00:11:53,020
around Roswell whether it's the crashed

278
00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:54,310
alien spacecraft

279
00:11:58,560 --> 00:11:56,650
whether it's Nick Redferns idea of an

280
00:12:00,840 --> 00:11:58,570
experimental craft coming down or

281
00:12:02,610 --> 00:12:00,850
whether it was project mogul or weather

282
00:12:04,410 --> 00:12:02,620
balloon for that matter everybody

283
00:12:07,290 --> 00:12:04,420
including the US Air Force admits that

284
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:07,300
something was found something happened

285
00:12:10,980 --> 00:12:09,250
and then it's just a question of well

286
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:10,990
okay what was that something but then

287
00:12:16,410 --> 00:12:13,360
you run into cases like the San Agustin

288
00:12:19,650 --> 00:12:16,420
claims where there's no evidence

289
00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:19,660
credible evidence that anything happened

290
00:12:24,450 --> 00:12:22,330
you just have a story and I think when

291
00:12:26,450 --> 00:12:24,460
you're looking through these tales of

292
00:12:28,590 --> 00:12:26,460
UFO crashes whatever you think of them

293
00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:28,600
it's important to separate the wheat

294
00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:30,760
from the chaff and get rid of the chaff

295
00:12:34,290 --> 00:12:32,710
ie the cases for which there's no real

296
00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:34,300
credible evidence or it's just one

297
00:12:38,970 --> 00:12:36,310
witness and it's unsupported and then

298
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:38,980
focus in as much as I sort of dislike

299
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:40,930
the Roswell case for a lot of reasons

300
00:12:45,510 --> 00:12:42,730
but at least focus in on those cases

301
00:12:47,550 --> 00:12:45,520
where you you have something that

302
00:12:49,620 --> 00:12:47,560
everybody can agree on happened and then

303
00:12:51,090 --> 00:12:49,630
let's okay let's try and figure out what

304
00:12:52,830 --> 00:12:51,100
happened there's one other thing I want

305
00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:52,840
to ask you about Kevin and and I guess

306
00:12:58,530 --> 00:12:55,600
Jean or Chris might step in and that is

307
00:13:00,510 --> 00:12:58,540
going back to the majestic 12 stuff for

308
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:00,520
a minute because how can you ever get

309
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:02,560
enough it's been a while since we did

310
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:06,370
majestic 12 so why not what has always

311
00:13:11,790 --> 00:13:08,560
struck me as as amusing is the mj-12

312
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:11,800
documents which Stan believes are valid

313
00:13:15,810 --> 00:13:14,050
and he also believes the Roswell

314
00:13:18,570 --> 00:13:15,820
incident is valid and he also

315
00:13:20,580 --> 00:13:18,580
the crash at San Agustin is valid you

316
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:20,590
have to write the mj-12 documents make

317
00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:23,410
no mention in this briefing document to

318
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:25,570
Eisenhower of a crash on the plains of

319
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:27,490
San Agustin you would think they would

320
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:29,920
mention both of them not just one but

321
00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:33,370
the mj-12 documents do mention a crash

322
00:13:38,820 --> 00:13:36,760
in Del Rio and you talk about that in

323
00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:38,830
your book so leaving aside the

324
00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:41,110
contradictions of documents that don't

325
00:13:46,350 --> 00:13:43,510
mention San Agustin let's talk a bit

326
00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:46,360
about the Del Rio crash or you know what

327
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:48,070
folks have you listening anytime I say

328
00:13:52,350 --> 00:13:49,810
crash because I'm too lazy to do it I

329
00:13:54,210 --> 00:13:52,360
will put assumed alleged is in front of

330
00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:54,220
the word crash when I use it so let

331
00:13:58,170 --> 00:13:56,290
Kevon talk about the del video incident

332
00:14:00,910 --> 00:13:58,180
or crash a bit but before he does that

333
00:14:08,930 --> 00:14:00,920
I've got to remind our listeners

334
00:14:14,130 --> 00:14:11,910
hi this is Tamar from new cheese we're a

335
00:14:15,990 --> 00:14:14,140
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spammers we won't bother you with

341
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unwanted messaging in your inbox or upon

342
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checkout but most importantly we care

343
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about you our customers your

344
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345
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346
00:14:37,079 --> 00:14:35,260
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347
00:14:38,430 --> 00:14:37,089
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348
00:14:40,590 --> 00:14:38,440
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349
00:14:42,570 --> 00:14:40,600
for web hosting and domain name specials

350
00:14:48,090 --> 00:14:42,580
you can also follow us on twitter at

351
00:14:50,190 --> 00:14:48,100
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352
00:14:55,620 --> 00:14:50,200
facebook.com slash Namecheap see you

353
00:14:57,060 --> 00:14:55,630
online we want to hear from you if you

354
00:15:00,269 --> 00:14:57,070
have a comment or question about the

355
00:15:01,019 --> 00:15:00,279
pair cast send it to news at the podcast

356
00:15:04,290 --> 00:15:01,029
com

357
00:15:06,210 --> 00:15:04,300
that's news at the podcast calm and

358
00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:06,220
don't forget to visit our forums where

359
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:07,930
you can talk to fellow listeners just go

360
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:10,480
to the para cast comm and click on the

361
00:15:22,820 --> 00:15:12,970
forum links that's the forum links at

362
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:24,800
this is Leslie Kane and I'm with the

363
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:27,090
Coalition for freedom of information and

364
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:30,050
you are listening to the paragraph

365
00:15:35,090 --> 00:15:33,210
you're in the power chest two co-hosts

366
00:15:36,860 --> 00:15:35,100
for the price of one and you're not

367
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:36,870
paying for the show so you're getting a

368
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:39,210
real bargain here we have Christopher

369
00:15:41,570 --> 00:15:41,250
O'Brien and Paul Campbell our special

370
00:15:44,060 --> 00:15:41,580
guest

371
00:15:47,690 --> 00:15:44,070
Kevin Randle offer of a new book crash

372
00:15:52,730 --> 00:15:47,700
UFOs fall from the sky we go back to the

373
00:15:54,590 --> 00:15:52,740
alleged crash in Del Rio in 1957 before

374
00:15:57,380 --> 00:15:54,600
before we get to that tonight can I just

375
00:16:00,350 --> 00:15:57,390
say one thing sure I was arguing with

376
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:00,360
Stan about the validity of mj-12 at one

377
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:02,490
point and he said send me a document

378
00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:04,650
that proves there was no crash on the

379
00:16:11,990 --> 00:16:06,750
plane to San Agustin so I sent a copy of

380
00:16:14,630 --> 00:16:12,000
the mj-12 paper that's why I like you

381
00:16:16,430 --> 00:16:14,640
Kevin it's your sense of humor I'm

382
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:16,440
pretty sure having interviewed stand and

383
00:16:22,220 --> 00:16:17,850
known him for thirty years that he never

384
00:16:23,750 --> 00:16:22,230
really got the joke but yeah explain to

385
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:23,760
me why it wasn't mentioned there but

386
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:25,170
that's a whole other argument okay let's

387
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:27,330
go to Del Rio and this is an important

388
00:16:32,630 --> 00:16:29,610
case because a good friend Lynn

389
00:16:34,750 --> 00:16:32,640
Springfield who I'll be doing a tribute

390
00:16:37,340 --> 00:16:34,760
to at the MUFON conference in July

391
00:16:39,470 --> 00:16:37,350
started us back on the road to crash

392
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:39,480
retrievals in fact I think he originated

393
00:16:43,870 --> 00:16:41,850
the term crash fork repo in his paper in

394
00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:43,880
1978 the very first case he talked about

395
00:16:50,450 --> 00:16:47,310
was the real credit case a retired

396
00:16:53,090 --> 00:16:50,460
officer Colonel oh six which is the way

397
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:53,100
we designate between Colonels lieutenant

398
00:16:58,940 --> 00:16:56,130
Colonel's in the modern army is Colonels

399
00:17:01,040 --> 00:16:58,950
ro sixes and Lieutenant Colonel 0-5 did

400
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:01,050
an affidavit attesting to the fact that

401
00:17:05,689 --> 00:17:02,850
he had been involved in this retrieval

402
00:17:06,860 --> 00:17:05,699
operation which is why I accepted it at

403
00:17:08,990 --> 00:17:06,870
the beginning cuz I could not believe

404
00:17:11,030 --> 00:17:09,000
that a high-ranking Air Force officer

405
00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:11,040
would make something like this but Todd

406
00:17:16,820 --> 00:17:14,310
Jekyll who was a UFO researcher of

407
00:17:20,270 --> 00:17:16,830
mediocre talent and that might be

408
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:20,280
generous had found this officer named

409
00:17:24,350 --> 00:17:22,530
Robert Willingham and interviewed him we

410
00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:24,360
got an affidavit attesting to what what

411
00:17:30,140 --> 00:17:26,310
had happened about how he had been

412
00:17:31,790 --> 00:17:30,150
flying chase on a b-47 you know in a

413
00:17:34,340 --> 00:17:31,800
fighter planes and this thing it flashed

414
00:17:36,050 --> 00:17:34,350
across the sky I mean they flew down and

415
00:17:37,930 --> 00:17:36,060
saw that a detraction

416
00:17:40,250 --> 00:17:37,940
came back a little bit later in a

417
00:17:41,390 --> 00:17:40,260
private plane and landed and talked to

418
00:17:43,370 --> 00:17:41,400
the Mexican authorities that were

419
00:17:44,990 --> 00:17:43,380
recovering her so it's an interesting

420
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:45,000
it's an interesting story and here's a

421
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:46,290
high-ranking officer signing an

422
00:17:53,740 --> 00:17:49,410
affidavit Zeca placed the date of the

423
00:17:56,060 --> 00:17:53,750
South December 6 1950s that took place

424
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:56,070
documented events of some kind of a work

425
00:18:00,500 --> 00:17:57,570
that took place in the United States and

426
00:18:02,540 --> 00:18:00,510
under 7 6 1950 so he's trying to tie all

427
00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:02,550
of this together so I'm putting together

428
00:18:09,140 --> 00:18:05,910
the ball crash and I'm thinking well gee

429
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:09,150
I haven't really looked at this del real

430
00:18:12,980 --> 00:18:11,520
case for quite a while maybe I should

431
00:18:15,410 --> 00:18:12,990
see what's available about it on the

432
00:18:16,940 --> 00:18:15,420
internet which is a wonderful research

433
00:18:18,830 --> 00:18:16,950
tool if you understand that not

434
00:18:21,230 --> 00:18:18,840
everything on the internet is true and

435
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:21,240
so I just typed in Del Rio UFO crash and

436
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:23,010
learned that there had been a book

437
00:18:27,890 --> 00:18:25,410
written about this Willingham had been

438
00:18:32,150 --> 00:18:27,900
the main focus of this book and the date

439
00:18:34,940 --> 00:18:32,160
was no longer 1950 but was in fact 1954

440
00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:34,950
that's kind of odd the aircraft that

441
00:18:40,790 --> 00:18:37,440
Willingham was flying changed from from

442
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:40,800
I think was f94 Zinn in the first

443
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:42,690
version to another aircraft and the air

444
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:44,490
base that he'd flown out of diets would

445
00:18:48,980 --> 00:18:46,770
have changed because Dyess hadn't

446
00:18:50,590 --> 00:18:48,990
existed them at the time so there were

447
00:18:53,150 --> 00:18:50,600
all these changes and this got to me

448
00:18:57,020 --> 00:18:53,160
wondering about the credibility of this

449
00:18:58,580 --> 00:18:57,030
case no akari's and Reuben urk are the

450
00:19:00,170 --> 00:18:58,590
authors of that book and I've been in

451
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:00,180
communication with both of them I've met

452
00:19:05,690 --> 00:19:02,730
met Ruben at the convention last year

453
00:19:06,890 --> 00:19:05,700
very nice guys but they believed

454
00:19:08,570 --> 00:19:06,900
Willingham was telling them the truth

455
00:19:11,390 --> 00:19:08,580
and I said whether you have any

456
00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:11,400
documentation that he was an Air Force

457
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:13,110
officer and they sent me a photograph of

458
00:19:17,540 --> 00:19:15,210
him in an Air Force uniform and some

459
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:17,550
document and I looked at that and I

460
00:19:20,540 --> 00:19:18,960
wrote back and I said you know he's in a

461
00:19:22,790 --> 00:19:20,550
Civil Air Patrol uniform not not

462
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:22,800
airforce Civil Air Patrol is a civilian

463
00:19:26,780 --> 00:19:24,960
auxilary of the Air Force volunteer

464
00:19:30,170 --> 00:19:26,790
organization even search-and-rescues

465
00:19:33,170 --> 00:19:30,180
wonderful organization but not being in

466
00:19:36,140 --> 00:19:33,180
the Air Force and so I wrote to st.

467
00:19:37,850 --> 00:19:36,150
Louis to get a copy of Willingham's

468
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:37,860
record to verify that he'd been a

469
00:19:43,820 --> 00:19:40,290
high-ranking officer and discovered that

470
00:19:46,190 --> 00:19:43,830
he joined the army in December of 1945

471
00:19:48,770 --> 00:19:46,200
which technically makes him a veteran of

472
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:48,780
World War two and even discharged in

473
00:19:51,980 --> 00:19:49,890
1947

474
00:19:53,570 --> 00:19:51,990
that's the only record they had nothing

475
00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:53,580
about him being an officer nothing

476
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:56,130
nothing like that at all so I requested

477
00:20:02,570 --> 00:20:00,480
more information and Noah Tory sent me a

478
00:20:05,540 --> 00:20:02,580
lot of lot of documentation but it was

479
00:20:07,460 --> 00:20:05,550
all Civil Air Patrol nothing to suggest

480
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:07,470
you've been an Air Force Office so now

481
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:08,730
we've got a problem we've got this

482
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:10,770
wonderful story of Dell real so I called

483
00:20:13,850 --> 00:20:12,210
Willingham and talked to him and he's

484
00:20:17,690 --> 00:20:13,860
well he didn't remember the exact date

485
00:20:19,580 --> 00:20:17,700
it might have been 1954 1955 in 1957 he

486
00:20:21,770 --> 00:20:19,590
just knew it was in 1950 because he'd

487
00:20:24,650 --> 00:20:21,780
been in Korea at the time no evidence of

488
00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:24,660
that either but I'd heard that that the

489
00:20:29,420 --> 00:20:26,910
story came about from a newspaper

490
00:20:32,270 --> 00:20:29,430
article that that Todd Jekyll had found

491
00:20:35,780 --> 00:20:32,280
it had been published in 1968 in a small

492
00:20:37,250 --> 00:20:35,790
newspaper in Pennsylvania a copy of the

493
00:20:40,610 --> 00:20:37,260
clipping had been sent to nycap

494
00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:40,620
headquarters in Washington DC and that

495
00:20:45,620 --> 00:20:42,990
was how Decca found out about it and he

496
00:20:47,330 --> 00:20:45,630
got to Willingham that way so I started

497
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:47,340
looking for that article which I never

498
00:20:53,180 --> 00:20:50,970
did fine but I did find in Skye look

499
00:20:56,330 --> 00:20:53,190
which was the precursor to the mutant

500
00:20:58,910 --> 00:20:56,340
journal an article from from I think

501
00:21:01,450 --> 00:20:58,920
it's a February March or March April

502
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:01,460
issue I forget which one but it's that

503
00:21:08,990 --> 00:21:05,130
1968 and here's the story called by the

504
00:21:12,140 --> 00:21:09,000
Willingham in 1968 so the event didn't

505
00:21:13,850 --> 00:21:12,150
take place in 1950 or 54 55 or 56

506
00:21:16,460 --> 00:21:13,860
according to Willingham in the original

507
00:21:19,310 --> 00:21:16,470
article it took place in 1948 there were

508
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:19,320
three objects involved not one and he

509
00:21:24,380 --> 00:21:21,330
was flying in f94 an aircraft that

510
00:21:26,510 --> 00:21:24,390
didn't even exist in 1948 of Corti

511
00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:26,520
reported all the documentation so this

512
00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:30,000
really done to me they have sent me

513
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:32,480
pictures of Willingham in uniform

514
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:35,010
clearly it's not Air Forces Civil Air

515
00:21:40,730 --> 00:21:38,010
Patrol you can tell this because the

516
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:40,740
guys were in C ap ribbons on the uniform

517
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:42,360
with his military rigor that he earned

518
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:44,400
while he was in the army which was

519
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:45,690
authorized on the Civil Air Patrol

520
00:21:51,140 --> 00:21:47,910
uniform but not on an Air Force uniform

521
00:21:53,540 --> 00:21:51,150
but the most important point is he had

522
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:53,550
taken off the distinctive signal up the

523
00:21:57,290 --> 00:21:55,770
lapel where it would say EAP if it was

524
00:22:00,860 --> 00:21:57,300
Civil Air Patrol or us whether it was

525
00:22:02,630 --> 00:22:00,870
Air Force that's missing so clearly the

526
00:22:03,710 --> 00:22:02,640
pictures were taken and he took off

527
00:22:05,389 --> 00:22:03,720
those insignia so

528
00:22:07,399 --> 00:22:05,399
wouldn't realize that he was in a Civil

529
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:07,409
Air Patrol uniform no evidence now

530
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:09,210
that's a weird that's kind of weird why

531
00:22:15,470 --> 00:22:12,090
would he do that so so here's a picture

532
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:15,480
of him taken in the 1960s to the late

533
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:18,090
late 60s early 70s to show him in

534
00:22:23,659 --> 00:22:20,970
uniform and it looks good but it's

535
00:22:27,860 --> 00:22:23,669
clearly a Civil Air Patrol uniform so

536
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:27,870
he's he's engaged in this deceit who he

537
00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:29,730
is and what he was he was clearly a

538
00:22:33,669 --> 00:22:31,110
Civil Air Patrol officer

539
00:22:37,009 --> 00:22:33,679
now I'm sense that communication with

540
00:22:40,159 --> 00:22:37,019
st. Louis and the guy has tried to

541
00:22:42,379 --> 00:22:40,169
convince him he was doin III think it's

542
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:42,389
because he believed somehow that years

543
00:22:46,460 --> 00:22:44,250
in the Civil Air Patrol translated two

544
00:22:48,019 --> 00:22:46,470
years in the Air Force and therefore he

545
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:48,029
was due attention but that's not true

546
00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:50,490
what I don't know I think I think some

547
00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:52,950
people can earn retirement points for

548
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:55,470
participating in air for in civil air

549
00:22:59,659 --> 00:22:57,570
patrol activities on the senior level

550
00:23:02,960 --> 00:22:59,669
but that does not count toward a good

551
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:02,970
year or retirement retirement other than

552
00:23:08,180 --> 00:23:05,330
you get one point for this one

553
00:23:10,399 --> 00:23:08,190
participation which works about the 50

554
00:23:12,350 --> 00:23:10,409
cent retirement point when you add them

555
00:23:14,389 --> 00:23:12,360
all up here's what I find interesting

556
00:23:16,999 --> 00:23:14,399
about the del rio thing versus san

557
00:23:19,749 --> 00:23:17,009
agustin versus mj-12 and this is sort of

558
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:19,759
why I asked about it the Del Rio case

559
00:23:26,060 --> 00:23:23,970
existed in the public knowledge prior to

560
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:26,070
the creation wherever they were created

561
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:28,559
of the mj-12 documents correct yes in

562
00:23:33,049 --> 00:23:30,450
fact I know a little bit further than

563
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:33,059
that Cole wanted to write a book about

564
00:23:38,930 --> 00:23:36,330
Del Rio about the same time that bill

565
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:38,940
Moore was writing the Roswell incident

566
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:42,690
there is a mention of the Del Rio crash

567
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:46,559
in the Roswell incident it just

568
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:48,210
mentioned it briefly and the Todd's echo

569
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:50,730
has been looking into it okay when the

570
00:23:57,799 --> 00:23:54,240
mj-12 document appears we've got a

571
00:23:59,480 --> 00:23:57,809
paragraph about the del real case which

572
00:24:01,909 --> 00:23:59,490
clearly is a hoax

573
00:24:03,710 --> 00:24:01,919
so the question then become if they'll

574
00:24:05,509 --> 00:24:03,720
real into hoax what's it doing in the

575
00:24:06,950 --> 00:24:05,519
Eisenhower briefing document and doesn't

576
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:06,960
just suggest the briefing document

577
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:08,129
there's also a hoax

578
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:09,840
one more proof that it's a home yeah

579
00:24:14,060 --> 00:24:11,490
I've always thought of all the things in

580
00:24:16,340 --> 00:24:14,070
there even worse than the dome and

581
00:24:19,250 --> 00:24:16,350
inclusion which stand what a you

582
00:24:21,410 --> 00:24:19,260
know quite a ways to if not proving at

583
00:24:22,850 --> 00:24:21,420
least showing that Menzel did have a you

584
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:22,860
know quite a secret life and a high

585
00:24:27,410 --> 00:24:24,930
security clearance so maybe you could

586
00:24:28,910 --> 00:24:27,420
jump that hurdle but the one that I that

587
00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:28,920
I don't think anybody with any

588
00:24:34,430 --> 00:24:31,260
objectivity could get a crew get over is

589
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:34,440
the non inclusion of San Agustin and the

590
00:24:39,770 --> 00:24:36,510
inclusion of Del Rio which is you say is

591
00:24:41,570 --> 00:24:39,780
clearly not accurate not true we can go

592
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:41,580
one step further now because there's an

593
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:43,110
awful lot of people and in the book I

594
00:24:45,950 --> 00:24:44,850
talk about as Texans yeah I hate to talk

595
00:24:47,390 --> 00:24:45,960
about all the hoax

596
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:47,400
talk about some of the interesting stuff

597
00:24:52,730 --> 00:24:50,850
but but I talk about the Aztec case in

598
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:52,740
the book as well and it was my

599
00:24:56,810 --> 00:24:54,330
conclusions and that it's a hoax now I

600
00:24:58,370 --> 00:24:56,820
understand Scott Ramsay has done a lot

601
00:24:59,930 --> 00:24:58,380
of research and Aztec and he's now

602
00:25:02,150 --> 00:24:59,940
convinced that he's got the evidence to

603
00:25:04,550 --> 00:25:02,160
prove that our tech was real if that's

604
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:04,560
the case an Aztec is nineteen forty

605
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:05,730
eight thing it who should be an

606
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:14,270
hey news for Kevin Scott Ramsay was

607
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:15,930
convinced that the Aztec case was real

608
00:25:20,090 --> 00:25:17,520
before he actually started researching

609
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:20,100
the Aztec case that's that's my take on

610
00:25:25,580 --> 00:25:21,930
it and that's that's all I'm gonna say

611
00:25:28,550 --> 00:25:25,590
about this I was on a program several

612
00:25:30,530 --> 00:25:28,560
months ago and mentioned the I said case

613
00:25:32,810 --> 00:25:30,540
I thought it was a hoax and they were

614
00:25:34,850 --> 00:25:32,820
wanting me to come on in debate Scott

615
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:34,860
Ramsay and I pointed out well it's not

616
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:36,090
fair because I don't know what Ramsay

617
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:38,010
has in the way of evidence I know what

618
00:25:43,010 --> 00:25:41,520
where we are in today's world on a stock

619
00:25:45,140 --> 00:25:43,020
but I don't know what he may be

620
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:45,150
presenting to suggest that Aztec is real

621
00:25:48,740 --> 00:25:47,250
and until I can see that evidence it

622
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:48,750
doesn't seem like it would be a fair

623
00:25:53,330 --> 00:25:51,330
thing to debate him about it I'd be I'd

624
00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:53,340
be at a disadvantage because I would not

625
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:55,440
have access to the information he

626
00:25:59,120 --> 00:25:57,600
currently has now I know I know Sam now

627
00:26:00,830 --> 00:25:59,130
it's real

628
00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:00,840
yeah but Stan's convinced that

629
00:26:04,940 --> 00:26:02,910
everything's real and I say that with

630
00:26:07,010 --> 00:26:04,950
the greatest affection I can muster but

631
00:26:08,450 --> 00:26:07,020
you know when you've crossed the rubicon

632
00:26:11,030 --> 00:26:08,460
of being convinced that the mj-12

633
00:26:13,460 --> 00:26:11,040
documents are real against all evidence

634
00:26:15,110 --> 00:26:13,470
that they're not and then you started

635
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:15,120
latching on to things like the flatwoods

636
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:18,240
monster case and the Aztek case and all

637
00:26:22,940 --> 00:26:20,730
of a sudden it seems like virtually

638
00:26:25,660 --> 00:26:22,950
anything that falls from the skies is an

639
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:25,670
extraterrestrial spacecraft that crashes

640
00:26:31,210 --> 00:26:29,120
and you have to ask well why is this

641
00:26:33,850 --> 00:26:31,220
researcher still viewed as credible then

642
00:26:35,950 --> 00:26:33,860
you're getting dangerously close to XO

643
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:35,960
politics territory at that point where

644
00:26:40,420 --> 00:26:37,730
you seem to be accepting almost any

645
00:26:42,910 --> 00:26:40,430
story that comes in even though in the

646
00:26:43,630 --> 00:26:42,920
case of Aztec I call it ufologist

647
00:26:45,550 --> 00:26:43,640
Dracula

648
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:45,560
I mean JP Khan's stuck a stake in that

649
00:26:51,550 --> 00:26:49,610
thing over fifty years ago and it sue

650
00:26:53,950 --> 00:26:51,560
every now and then Bill Steinman in the

651
00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:53,960
80s Scott Ramsay in the 90s and then

652
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:55,670
this decade somebody comes along and

653
00:27:00,460 --> 00:26:57,410
pulls the stake out and the vampire

654
00:27:02,260 --> 00:27:00,470
comes up and rampages through follow g4

655
00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:02,270
a bit and then somebody stakes it again

656
00:27:07,170 --> 00:27:04,130
with the same stake that was in it

657
00:27:11,290 --> 00:27:07,180
before and so my question would be how

658
00:27:12,910 --> 00:27:11,300
long does ufology let this go on before

659
00:27:15,610 --> 00:27:12,920
people just sort of throw their hands up

660
00:27:17,980 --> 00:27:15,620
and say you know what this is crazy

661
00:27:20,020 --> 00:27:17,990
so Kevin how long do we let this go on

662
00:27:23,140 --> 00:27:20,030
before we call it what it is crazy

663
00:27:25,870 --> 00:27:23,150
the problem I think is that a ufology we

664
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:25,880
kind of recycle the people every five to

665
00:27:32,590 --> 00:27:29,690
seven years and so with a few of those

666
00:27:35,470 --> 00:27:32,600
geezers running around and Stan would be

667
00:27:38,770 --> 00:27:35,480
the leading geezer I guess I'm not far

668
00:27:40,990 --> 00:27:38,780
behind in my geezer gun and in fact I my

669
00:27:44,170 --> 00:27:41,000
wife took a picture of the speaker's

670
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:44,180
panel at the MUFON conference last year

671
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:45,770
that was basically a whole bunch of

672
00:27:49,690 --> 00:27:47,930
geezers I don't think there was anybody

673
00:27:51,940 --> 00:27:49,700
with dark hair on the panel with the

674
00:27:54,490 --> 00:27:51,950
exception of Jim Carrey who was the

675
00:27:58,780 --> 00:27:54,500
international directors time but other

676
00:28:01,270 --> 00:27:58,790
than us people rediscover ufology and so

677
00:28:03,550 --> 00:28:01,280
they look this stuff up and they find

678
00:28:05,710 --> 00:28:03,560
the out staircase which sounds good when

679
00:28:08,290 --> 00:28:05,720
it when you begin looking at it because

680
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:08,300
here is all this suggested evidence and

681
00:28:14,740 --> 00:28:10,850
scientific investigation of it and

682
00:28:16,690 --> 00:28:14,750
military recovery of it so that it looks

683
00:28:18,850 --> 00:28:16,700
good but as they continue their interest

684
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:18,860
they begin to find find the problem so

685
00:28:24,010 --> 00:28:21,290
I'm pretty sure we're going to stick the

686
00:28:26,110 --> 00:28:24,020
steak in the Aztec case once again but

687
00:28:29,380 --> 00:28:26,120
that's really the problem with ufology

688
00:28:31,900 --> 00:28:29,390
is we do not seem to discriminate at all

689
00:28:33,790 --> 00:28:31,910
a case will be answered and then

690
00:28:36,340 --> 00:28:33,800
somebody will say well no not really

691
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:36,350
Thomas Mantell chased a balloon there is

692
00:28:38,810 --> 00:28:38,090
no question in my mind that's what

693
00:28:42,350 --> 00:28:38,820
happened

694
00:28:44,990 --> 00:28:42,360
Mantell was the National Guard pilot who

695
00:28:47,810 --> 00:28:45,000
was killed chasing a UFO in Kentucky in

696
00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:47,820
1948 I am convinced he was killed

697
00:28:53,780 --> 00:28:50,820
chasing a balloon based on the Air Force

698
00:28:55,940 --> 00:28:53,790
file and the study that I did of it 15

699
00:28:59,720 --> 00:28:55,950
years ago in learning everything I could

700
00:29:02,300 --> 00:28:59,730
about hypoxia and anoxia and man tells

701
00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:02,310
background as a world war two transport

702
00:29:07,370 --> 00:29:04,320
pilot which means he was that I used to

703
00:29:09,740 --> 00:29:07,380
the problems with oxygen deprivation at

704
00:29:12,410 --> 00:29:09,750
altitudes and all of this stuff and yet

705
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:12,420
we're back well no we're not sure that

706
00:29:14,510 --> 00:29:13,650
he chased a balloon and may have been

707
00:29:15,950 --> 00:29:14,520
something else

708
00:29:18,020 --> 00:29:15,960
and and so we go through it over and

709
00:29:19,490 --> 00:29:18,030
over again and that's where we and

710
00:29:22,670 --> 00:29:19,500
ufology begin to lose our credibility

711
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:22,680
because we never give anything up it

712
00:29:27,050 --> 00:29:25,770
always comes back to hata so I I don't

713
00:29:29,060 --> 00:29:27,060
know how big of a stake you have to

714
00:29:31,250 --> 00:29:29,070
drive through some of these cases to end

715
00:29:38,810 --> 00:29:31,260
it but we just never seem to get that

716
00:29:41,030 --> 00:29:38,820
done picture this you're on the phone

717
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:41,040
with a client or colleague trying to

718
00:29:46,790 --> 00:29:43,890
explain something visual a PowerPoint a

719
00:29:49,430 --> 00:29:46,800
keynote presentation a website but it's

720
00:29:50,420 --> 00:29:49,440
frustrating because they can't see what

721
00:29:53,150 --> 00:29:50,430
you're talking about

722
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:53,160
the solution good news they can if you

723
00:29:58,850 --> 00:29:55,770
invite them to an online meeting using

724
00:30:01,010 --> 00:29:58,860
GoToMeeting then they can see your

725
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:01,020
computer desktop on their computer

726
00:30:04,130 --> 00:30:03,360
screen so you can show them what you're

727
00:30:05,930 --> 00:30:04,140
talking about

728
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:05,940
by use GoToMeeting all the time to

729
00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:07,650
collaborate with colleagues and with

730
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:10,230
clients you can try goto meeting free

731
00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:13,650
for 30 days but you must visit go to

732
00:30:19,730 --> 00:30:16,110
meetings / podcasts

733
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:19,740
that's goto meeting.com slash podcasts

734
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:23,760
for free 30-day trial hi this is Don

735
00:30:28,850 --> 00:30:26,490
Ecker and you are tuned in to the para

736
00:30:37,310 --> 00:30:28,860
cast let me tell you what you're gonna

737
00:30:39,050 --> 00:30:37,320
hear stuff here we have Kevin D Randle

738
00:30:41,630 --> 00:30:39,060
he's author of a new book called crash

739
00:30:43,670 --> 00:30:41,640
when UFOs fall from the sky history of

740
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:43,680
famous incidents conspiracies and

741
00:30:48,770 --> 00:30:46,770
cover-ups co-hosts are Chris O'Brien and

742
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:48,780
Paul Kimball and the point being

743
00:30:51,930 --> 00:30:50,490
mentioned here that even if you go back

744
00:30:54,869 --> 00:30:51,940
to the 1950s in the

745
00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:54,879
original books by major Donald Kehoe he

746
00:31:00,480 --> 00:30:58,090
was touting the Mantell case and I don't

747
00:31:03,539 --> 00:31:00,490
think he'll ever backtrack did Kyo ever

748
00:31:06,509 --> 00:31:03,549
backtrack on that to be fair to Kehoe on

749
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:06,519
man tell he did not have access to the

750
00:31:11,580 --> 00:31:09,850
air force files which we all do today he

751
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:11,590
made he made him a couple of assumptions

752
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:14,080
that were wrong during the times when

753
00:31:17,850 --> 00:31:15,730
the object was seen in various Kentucky

754
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:17,860
towns measuring the distance between

755
00:31:21,090 --> 00:31:19,450
them and saying okay it had to be

756
00:31:23,039 --> 00:31:21,100
traveling it I think he said something

757
00:31:25,499 --> 00:31:23,049
like 210 miles an hour well a balloon

758
00:31:27,690 --> 00:31:25,509
wouldn't travel that fast but what he

759
00:31:29,970 --> 00:31:27,700
did not really look at is the direction

760
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:29,980
of the sighting and how high the thing

761
00:31:35,249 --> 00:31:32,799
could have been so the reference could

762
00:31:36,690 --> 00:31:35,259
have had simultaneous sightings in these

763
00:31:38,519 --> 00:31:36,700
two towns because of the altitude the

764
00:31:40,139 --> 00:31:38,529
thing goes out there's a drawing in the

765
00:31:42,029 --> 00:31:40,149
project Bluebook filed by one of the

766
00:31:45,269 --> 00:31:42,039
witnesses and it looks for all the world

767
00:31:47,039 --> 00:31:45,279
like a skyhook balloon in the drawing

768
00:31:48,570 --> 00:31:47,049
and I mean that that's really kind of a

769
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:48,580
giveaway and the thing hangs in the sky

770
00:31:52,830 --> 00:31:51,250
forever and a week they until I had no

771
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:52,840
chance getting to it but to be fair to

772
00:31:57,749 --> 00:31:54,730
Kehoe he didn't have access to all this

773
00:31:59,549 --> 00:31:57,759
information that we have today I'm not

774
00:32:01,499 --> 00:31:59,559
sure what what Kehoe would have done

775
00:32:04,139 --> 00:32:01,509
with it I also know that the Air Force

776
00:32:06,330 --> 00:32:04,149
one after chemo in the Levelland case

777
00:32:07,889 --> 00:32:06,340
from 1957 where the object was seen

778
00:32:10,399 --> 00:32:07,899
close to the ground it interacted with

779
00:32:12,860 --> 00:32:10,409
the environment it stalled car engines

780
00:32:16,619 --> 00:32:12,870
Kehoe had said there were nine witnesses

781
00:32:18,090 --> 00:32:16,629
nine separate locations the air force in

782
00:32:20,700 --> 00:32:18,100
essence called Kehoe Alliance is now

783
00:32:22,590 --> 00:32:20,710
there's only free and I went back to

784
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:22,600
look at all of this stuff and using the

785
00:32:26,519 --> 00:32:24,490
air force files and other information I

786
00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:26,529
was able to locate witnesses at 13

787
00:32:31,499 --> 00:32:28,960
separate location so yeah Kehoe was

788
00:32:33,570 --> 00:32:31,509
wrong but he underestimated the air

789
00:32:35,460 --> 00:32:33,580
force was wrong and they flat lied about

790
00:32:38,159 --> 00:32:35,470
it because they knew about these other

791
00:32:40,350 --> 00:32:38,169
witnesses but what they but a witness

792
00:32:43,409 --> 00:32:40,360
does not exist in the air force mindset

793
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:43,419
at the time unless an air force person

794
00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:45,610
had talked to them so even though they

795
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:47,049
might have known a witness's name the

796
00:32:52,110 --> 00:32:48,399
fact they didn't talk to him made them a

797
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:52,120
non witness so Kehoe I think operating

798
00:32:56,820 --> 00:32:54,250
in the 1950s and what was going on with

799
00:32:58,560 --> 00:32:56,830
the straightforward knowledge going back

800
00:33:01,019 --> 00:32:58,570
to Roswell for just a second Kevin we

801
00:33:02,820 --> 00:33:01,029
have a and maybe this could be a

802
00:33:04,390 --> 00:33:02,830
concluding thing or maybe Chris wants to

803
00:33:06,130 --> 00:33:04,400
come back at it from a different angle

804
00:33:10,420 --> 00:33:06,140
but for me there's a guy on the para

805
00:33:13,390 --> 00:33:10,430
caste forms tagnames ILO and he writes

806
00:33:14,770 --> 00:33:13,400
in a thread saying about this show you

807
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:14,780
know hey guys if you have any questions

808
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:17,510
for Kevin what are they he writes I

809
00:33:21,490 --> 00:33:18,770
would like to hear mr. Randall's

810
00:33:25,060 --> 00:33:21,500
response to the following is Roswell

811
00:33:28,450 --> 00:33:25,070
still a pertinent case within ufology if

812
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:28,460
so why and we just talked about staking

813
00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:31,850
all of these other cases so is Roswell

814
00:33:36,850 --> 00:33:34,910
still pertinent Kevin why and hasn't it

815
00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:36,860
been staked to and if it hasn't done

816
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:40,070
absolutely god the Mogul Act answer and

817
00:33:44,830 --> 00:33:42,080
I think anybody who looks at the Morgul

818
00:33:48,190 --> 00:33:44,840
answer honestly will say it doesn't work

819
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:48,200
and why does it work well a child's more

820
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:49,970
on the boys the Mogul boys went to

821
00:33:53,260 --> 00:33:51,770
Roswell and asked for their help chasing

822
00:33:54,549 --> 00:33:53,270
the balloons so the guys at Roswell knew

823
00:33:58,150 --> 00:33:54,559
the balloons were out there floating

824
00:33:59,770 --> 00:33:58,160
around the Mogul boys were required fish

825
00:34:01,120 --> 00:33:59,780
you know Toombs notice to Airmen when

826
00:34:03,340 --> 00:34:01,130
they launched the balloons over the a

827
00:34:06,940 --> 00:34:03,350
lemon flying around with no these big

828
00:34:10,060 --> 00:34:06,950
huge aerial obstacles we're out there

829
00:34:11,740 --> 00:34:10,070
floating around the name mogul Andre do

830
00:34:15,460 --> 00:34:11,750
what Charles Moore said was known by the

831
00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:15,470
mobile team in 1919 40s and in fact if

832
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:17,510
you look at dr. Perry's diary clearly

833
00:34:24,159 --> 00:34:21,050
being the chief of Lobo he uses the term

834
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:24,169
mogul in his diary a couple of times so

835
00:34:28,450 --> 00:34:25,970
they're they're the mobile explanation

836
00:34:30,820 --> 00:34:28,460
simply does not work that doesn't mean

837
00:34:32,409 --> 00:34:30,830
it was extraterrestrial for me what

838
00:34:34,419 --> 00:34:32,419
takes us to the extra-terrestrial is my

839
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:34,429
conversation with Edwin easily who was

840
00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:39,440
the provost marshal at rosalind 1947 and

841
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:42,260
and I asked him if we were following the

842
00:34:45,180 --> 00:34:44,090
right path and he said what do you mean

843
00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:45,190
and I said we think it's

844
00:34:49,659 --> 00:34:47,510
extraterrestrial and he said well let me

845
00:34:51,879 --> 00:34:49,669
put it this way it's not the wrong path

846
00:34:53,710 --> 00:34:51,889
not to mention that every member of

847
00:34:56,020 --> 00:34:53,720
Colonel Blanchard staff Blanchard being

848
00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:56,030
the commander of the 509 stronger that

849
00:35:00,070 --> 00:34:58,130
wazzle at the time I remember the staff

850
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:00,080
that we talked to was a single exception

851
00:35:06,180 --> 00:35:03,890
said that it was an alien spacecraft it

852
00:35:08,350 --> 00:35:06,190
was extraterrestrial like Jesse Marcel

853
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:08,360
Jobe riling

854
00:35:14,410 --> 00:35:12,320
Edwin easily Patrick Saunders just to

855
00:35:17,020 --> 00:35:14,420
name a few of the officers or many of

856
00:35:18,530 --> 00:35:17,030
them retiring at very high rank talked

857
00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:18,540
about it being a

858
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:20,400
Roswell is the big gorilla in the room

859
00:35:24,650 --> 00:35:22,890
the other thing that really interests me

860
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:24,660
about the Roswell case is you have on

861
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:27,090
July 8th the Air Force or the guys at

862
00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:29,130
Roswell saying we've got a flying saucer

863
00:35:34,250 --> 00:35:32,310
the next day you get headlines around

864
00:35:35,780 --> 00:35:34,260
the country say the Army and Navy move

865
00:35:37,790 --> 00:35:35,790
today to suppress stories of flying

866
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:37,800
saucers whizzing through the atmosphere

867
00:35:42,380 --> 00:35:40,290
why on July 9th that they care when they

868
00:35:44,090 --> 00:35:42,390
hadn't cared from the point of Kenneth

869
00:35:45,980 --> 00:35:44,100
Arnold citing some two weeks earlier

870
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:45,990
you've got all kinds of stories and

871
00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:47,610
speculations about what the flying

872
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:50,310
saucers are until July 9th when they

873
00:35:54,890 --> 00:35:53,010
when they move to start suppressing them

874
00:35:58,550 --> 00:35:54,900
that suggests something very unusual

875
00:36:01,700 --> 00:35:58,560
happened at Roswell canvass move us to

876
00:36:03,350 --> 00:36:01,710
the extra-terrestrial not really because

877
00:36:05,450 --> 00:36:03,360
all we have is the testimony of the

878
00:36:07,010 --> 00:36:05,460
people suggesting it we don't have the

879
00:36:08,990 --> 00:36:07,020
documentation that would prove it we

880
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:09,000
don't have the physical evidence would

881
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:12,690
prove it we have the testimony of the

882
00:36:16,730 --> 00:36:15,090
reliable people who didn't lie to us

883
00:36:19,310 --> 00:36:16,740
repeatedly like gerald anderson and

884
00:36:21,140 --> 00:36:19,320
frank kaufman and many others but we

885
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:21,150
have some very reliable information that

886
00:36:25,370 --> 00:36:23,130
takes us in that direction so it's the

887
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:25,380
big gorilla in the room somebody asked

888
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:26,880
the other day on one of the forms why

889
00:36:31,310 --> 00:36:28,410
can't why don't you guys talk about

890
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:31,320
something happening today and I said

891
00:36:34,730 --> 00:36:32,730
well that's a very good question let's

892
00:36:37,100 --> 00:36:34,740
see what's going on today and the

893
00:36:40,700 --> 00:36:37,110
sightings today just don't seem to be

894
00:36:42,740 --> 00:36:40,710
quite as exciting as they were back then

895
00:36:44,270 --> 00:36:42,750
and then cops walk and I actually talked

896
00:36:46,340 --> 00:36:44,280
about this a couple of times it's like

897
00:36:48,770 --> 00:36:46,350
the guys came down from outer space they

898
00:36:50,780 --> 00:36:48,780
they gathered their information that

899
00:36:53,210 --> 00:36:50,790
gathered the data they went home and

900
00:36:55,970 --> 00:36:53,220
they've only shown up periodically since

901
00:36:58,850 --> 00:36:55,980
in very small numbers not unlike well we

902
00:37:01,340 --> 00:36:58,860
went to the moon walked about on it from

903
00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:01,350
1969 to what 72 and we really haven't

904
00:37:06,290 --> 00:37:02,910
been back since then and except for some

905
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:06,300
probes and things like that so you know

906
00:37:11,570 --> 00:37:08,250
I I don't know what the answer that is

907
00:37:13,010 --> 00:37:11,580
but Roswell is the 800-pound gorilla in

908
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:13,020
the room and if you're going to talk

909
00:37:19,070 --> 00:37:15,770
about UFOs you have to at least address

910
00:37:21,350 --> 00:37:19,080
Roswell quickly which we have not done

911
00:37:23,870 --> 00:37:21,360
here by the way well that also raises

912
00:37:27,950 --> 00:37:23,880
the other question before Kris chimes in

913
00:37:30,170 --> 00:37:27,960
and that is if you find a way to dismiss

914
00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:30,180
Roswell for whatever reason Roswell

915
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:31,710
wasn't quite what we thought it was it

916
00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:33,930
was a secret weapon it was balloons

917
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:36,110
whatever it was it wants an EEG or

918
00:37:41,660 --> 00:37:39,450
crypto terrestrials that doesn't end the

919
00:37:44,750 --> 00:37:41,670
UFO enigma and that's also unfortunate

920
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:44,760
too we can't use Roswell as the linchpin

921
00:37:50,330 --> 00:37:47,970
for UFO research I guess it's kind of

922
00:37:53,090 --> 00:37:50,340
likely when they talk about terrorist

923
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:53,100
activities they say you know we can stop

924
00:37:57,890 --> 00:37:54,930
a hundred they only have to be

925
00:38:01,700 --> 00:37:57,900
successful one and it's kind of that way

926
00:38:04,100 --> 00:38:01,710
with with with the UFO phenomenon we can

927
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:04,110
look at a lot of different cases but it

928
00:38:09,620 --> 00:38:06,960
only takes one to prove that there has

929
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:09,630
been visitation and even Carl Sagan I

930
00:38:14,330 --> 00:38:12,210
think said that we would we could expect

931
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:14,340
at a visitation once every 10,000 years

932
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:17,370
and my question has always been well

933
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:19,680
when you start counting the 10,000 years

934
00:38:24,110 --> 00:38:22,410
and if you're an alien civilization that

935
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:24,120
has the capability of travelling into

936
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:27,450
their stellar distances and you find the

937
00:38:33,070 --> 00:38:29,610
beginnings of a civilization wherever we

938
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:33,080
happen to be in our societal evolution

939
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:35,610
whether it's the Egyptians building the

940
00:38:42,130 --> 00:38:40,170
pyramids the Romans the Syrians the

941
00:38:44,750 --> 00:38:42,140
Babylonians the Industrial Revolution

942
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:44,760
the Middle Ages wherever you find the

943
00:38:49,070 --> 00:38:47,010
civilization don't let me let me not

944
00:38:51,770 --> 00:38:49,080
forget the Aztecs and the Mayans and the

945
00:38:54,890 --> 00:38:51,780
Incas but if you found a civilization on

946
00:38:58,010 --> 00:38:54,900
earth that was obviously involved

947
00:38:59,930 --> 00:38:58,020
intelligent beings wouldn't that induce

948
00:39:01,400 --> 00:38:59,940
you to come back more frequently to see

949
00:39:02,060 --> 00:39:01,410
how they're progressing there see what

950
00:39:04,610 --> 00:39:02,070
they're doing

951
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:04,620
so what once our civilization is

952
00:39:08,030 --> 00:39:06,570
discovered by the aliens I would think

953
00:39:11,180 --> 00:39:08,040
they would come back more frequently

954
00:39:14,450 --> 00:39:11,190
than the once in every 10,000 years so

955
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:14,460
no if even if Roswell turns out to be

956
00:39:18,890 --> 00:39:16,770
something mundane and I don't think

957
00:39:21,410 --> 00:39:18,900
there's been an explanation offered yet

958
00:39:24,110 --> 00:39:21,420
that would cover all the evidences that

959
00:39:27,110 --> 00:39:24,120
we have for Roswell they all are lacking

960
00:39:28,850 --> 00:39:27,120
some and as I say we don't really have

961
00:39:31,250 --> 00:39:28,860
the physical evidence to prove it being

962
00:39:34,670 --> 00:39:31,260
actually terrestrial but even even if we

963
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:34,680
found that answer it would not explain

964
00:39:38,450 --> 00:39:36,570
the McMinnville pictures it would not

965
00:39:40,730 --> 00:39:38,460
explain the Levelland sightings it would

966
00:39:42,740 --> 00:39:40,740
not explain the Great Falls Montana

967
00:39:43,610 --> 00:39:42,750
movie it wouldn't explain a lot of

968
00:39:46,910 --> 00:39:43,620
different things it

969
00:39:49,100 --> 00:39:46,920
explain Shanghai the shake harbour

970
00:39:51,110 --> 00:39:49,110
incident from 1967

971
00:39:54,980 --> 00:39:51,120
it just wouldn't explain those sorts of

972
00:39:56,900 --> 00:39:54,990
things Chris yeah I've been slowly

973
00:39:58,580 --> 00:39:56,910
perusing through Joseph Farrell's new

974
00:40:01,970 --> 00:39:58,590
book called Roswell and the Reich and

975
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:01,980
since we're on this subject that I have

976
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:05,280
problems with I tend to break out in in

977
00:40:10,670 --> 00:40:08,730
like this weird kind of rash I need to

978
00:40:12,770 --> 00:40:10,680
get calamine lotion sometimes to like

979
00:40:16,940 --> 00:40:12,780
put it on myself when we're talking

980
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:16,950
about Roswell as some people who know or

981
00:40:21,050 --> 00:40:18,960
where am I thinking out there or where I

982
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:21,060
I have always had problems with the

983
00:40:26,660 --> 00:40:24,570
Roswell case I do appreciate creative

984
00:40:29,150 --> 00:40:26,670
thinking though and Joseph Ferrell is a

985
00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:29,160
new book Roswell in the Reich who raises

986
00:40:35,870 --> 00:40:32,190
some pretty interesting hypotheses that

987
00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:35,880
we may have been dealing in terms of

988
00:40:40,340 --> 00:40:37,710
that case with something highly

989
00:40:42,650 --> 00:40:40,350
terrestrial and possibly of German

990
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:42,660
origin Kevin have you looked into this

991
00:40:47,780 --> 00:40:45,690
particular angle and do you feel that it

992
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:47,790
holds water I haven't looked at it in

993
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:50,730
any great depth simply because I haven't

994
00:40:55,430 --> 00:40:53,730
been convinced I thought these I thought

995
00:40:57,290 --> 00:40:55,440
the Nazis were pretty well destroyed at

996
00:40:58,970 --> 00:40:57,300
the end of the Second World War I would

997
00:41:02,120 --> 00:40:58,980
argue I would argue that if they had a

998
00:41:04,820 --> 00:41:02,130
weapon that could do what the UFOs

999
00:41:06,830 --> 00:41:04,830
allegedly could do they would have

1000
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:06,840
deployed it but then again I can say

1001
00:41:12,500 --> 00:41:08,490
well you know they had the jet fighters

1002
00:41:14,900 --> 00:41:12,510
and Hitler used them completely wrong so

1003
00:41:16,220 --> 00:41:14,910
he didn't he didn't really utilize the

1004
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:16,230
weapon that he had that could have

1005
00:41:22,070 --> 00:41:19,170
really torn up the 8th Air Force and the

1006
00:41:24,380 --> 00:41:22,080
strategic bombing of Nazi Germany when

1007
00:41:26,780 --> 00:41:24,390
he had the opportunity so that argument

1008
00:41:29,420 --> 00:41:26,790
made may not work I just noticed the

1009
00:41:31,310 --> 00:41:29,430
book out and I haven't really looked at

1010
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:31,320
it so it's really not fair for me to

1011
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:32,610
comment on it as well

1012
00:41:37,610 --> 00:41:35,610
yeah I do I do urge you to you know at

1013
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:37,620
least at some point take a look at it

1014
00:41:41,540 --> 00:41:39,090
there's some pretty raises some pretty

1015
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,550
interesting points and and also he is a

1016
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:43,520
very good researcher and I do recommend

1017
00:41:50,450 --> 00:41:46,290
for you Roswell fans out there

1018
00:41:52,190 --> 00:41:50,460
in also Nick Redferns book I think next

1019
00:41:55,609 --> 00:41:52,200
the theory had cut the number of holes

1020
00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:55,619
in it but I appreciate creative thinking

1021
00:42:00,319 --> 00:41:58,170
in this field and I don't think we have

1022
00:42:02,150 --> 00:42:00,329
enough of it and someone like Allen's

1023
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:02,160
Springfield for instance I think anytime

1024
00:42:08,750 --> 00:42:05,609
you talk about UFO crashes you need to

1025
00:42:11,089 --> 00:42:08,760
look at the work that leonard did for

1026
00:42:13,190 --> 00:42:11,099
many years in the situation read i think

1027
00:42:16,010 --> 00:42:13,200
as i must read for anybody who's

1028
00:42:19,940 --> 00:42:16,020
interested in this subject what do you

1029
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:19,950
think of lands work in general in denver

1030
00:42:23,569 --> 00:42:21,450
at the end of july I'll be doing a

1031
00:42:25,670 --> 00:42:23,579
critical in Springfield looking at some

1032
00:42:27,589 --> 00:42:25,680
of what he had done talking about his

1033
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:27,599
UFO sighting over at Uwe Jima at the end

1034
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:30,240
of the Second World War and what I

1035
00:42:36,260 --> 00:42:32,480
always appreciate about lens work was

1036
00:42:38,540 --> 00:42:36,270
that he gathered the information he did

1037
00:42:39,620 --> 00:42:38,550
some analysis of it what he thought was

1038
00:42:41,930 --> 00:42:39,630
good and bad about it

1039
00:42:43,940 --> 00:42:41,940
but he but he published a number of

1040
00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:43,950
status reports on Clark crash retrievals

1041
00:42:47,660 --> 00:42:45,540
and through the information out there

1042
00:42:49,250 --> 00:42:47,670
and says you know I don't have time to

1043
00:42:51,890 --> 00:42:49,260
look at all of this here's what I've

1044
00:42:54,970 --> 00:42:51,900
been told maybe it'll be of benefit to

1045
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:54,980
somebody else maybe someone else can can

1046
00:42:59,120 --> 00:42:57,690
follow up on this and get to the end and

1047
00:43:02,109 --> 00:42:59,130
that was what's important about the del

1048
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:02,119
rio crashes that was the the lead off

1049
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:07,410
case in his 1978 paper in his I think

1050
00:43:11,630 --> 00:43:09,210
its first status report he talked about

1051
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:11,640
some additional information and and

1052
00:43:14,030 --> 00:43:12,810
suggests that he just found it really

1053
00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:14,040
hard to believe because the date had

1054
00:43:18,710 --> 00:43:16,319
changed so many times and some of these

1055
00:43:21,530 --> 00:43:18,720
things and now we were able to take it

1056
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:21,540
to the to its conclusion that it's all

1057
00:43:24,410 --> 00:43:23,640
based on a single witness who was not

1058
00:43:26,599 --> 00:43:24,420
reliable

1059
00:43:28,730 --> 00:43:26,609
so wrens work lens work is very

1060
00:43:31,130 --> 00:43:28,740
important especially when you're talking

1061
00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:31,140
about crash retrievals because had Lam

1062
00:43:36,410 --> 00:43:34,200
not presented the 1978 paper and then

1063
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:36,420
followed up with his status reports I

1064
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:38,130
don't think many of us would be talking

1065
00:43:42,260 --> 00:43:40,560
about crash retrievals it really it

1066
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:42,270
would have died and I remember when I

1067
00:43:45,950 --> 00:43:44,160
saw the the Roswell incident book the

1068
00:43:48,859 --> 00:43:45,960
first time I said well here's the Aztecs

1069
00:43:51,260 --> 00:43:48,869
case we packaged and didn't want a thing

1070
00:43:54,620 --> 00:43:51,270
to do with it because that's what struck

1071
00:43:56,510 --> 00:43:54,630
me but glam directed us to the crash

1072
00:43:59,470 --> 00:43:56,520
retrieval stories and said you know

1073
00:44:01,570 --> 00:43:59,480
these are interesting to me they

1074
00:44:02,859 --> 00:44:01,580
may not be true this one single witness

1075
00:44:05,380 --> 00:44:02,869
this one I can't tell you who the guy is

1076
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:05,390
but he seems to be credible so land

1077
00:44:10,630 --> 00:44:08,090
provided us with an awful lot of the

1078
00:44:12,730 --> 00:44:10,640
foundations for research into other

1079
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:12,740
areas crash retrieval service lens work

1080
00:44:23,830 --> 00:44:15,770
in that respect was extremely important

1081
00:44:26,590 --> 00:44:23,840
[Music]

1082
00:44:28,690 --> 00:44:26,600
fate magazine provides true reports of

1083
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:28,700
the strange and unknown keep up with the

1084
00:44:34,420 --> 00:44:31,280
latest on angels and miracles psychic

1085
00:44:35,530 --> 00:44:34,430
phenomena ghosts UFOs life after death

1086
00:44:37,780 --> 00:44:35,540
and much much more

1087
00:44:40,450 --> 00:44:37,790
to receive your free issue of faith

1088
00:44:44,380 --> 00:44:40,460
magazine call now at one eight hundred

1089
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1090
00:44:51,060 --> 00:44:48,800
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1091
00:44:59,650 --> 00:44:51,070
that's one eight hundred seven two eight

1092
00:45:02,350 --> 00:44:59,660
twenty seven thirty or WWF AEMA g.com

1093
00:45:16,330 --> 00:45:02,360
what are you waiting for your fate

1094
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:16,340
awaits what's extremely important by the

1095
00:45:20,890 --> 00:45:18,890
way is that we have Kevin D Randall

1096
00:45:23,230 --> 00:45:20,900
author of a new book called fresh that

1097
00:45:25,150 --> 00:45:23,240
explores these crash retrieval incidents

1098
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:25,160
and we're looking not just the stuff

1099
00:45:30,850 --> 00:45:27,170
that may pass muster but the stuff that

1100
00:45:33,310 --> 00:45:30,860
maybe we can discard and move on our

1101
00:45:36,100 --> 00:45:33,320
co-host Paul Kimball Chris O'Brien Chris

1102
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:36,110
she wanted to follow up yeah I'm very

1103
00:45:44,620 --> 00:45:41,510
curious as to your favorite and and in

1104
00:45:47,350 --> 00:45:44,630
the cases you feel hold the most water

1105
00:45:50,710 --> 00:45:47,360
in terms of your long years in the field

1106
00:45:52,510 --> 00:45:50,720
and you know obviously the extensive

1107
00:45:54,220 --> 00:45:52,520
research that you've done in the subject

1108
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:54,230
what are your favorite cases and which

1109
00:46:00,400 --> 00:45:57,050
ones do you feel the ones that are most

1110
00:46:02,500 --> 00:46:00,410
likely to be real well one of my

1111
00:46:04,450 --> 00:46:02,510
favorite case is one of most most real I

1112
00:46:06,130 --> 00:46:04,460
really like to del real case because we

1113
00:46:08,170 --> 00:46:06,140
were able to take that thing to attempt

1114
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:08,180
and here's an explanation and here's

1115
00:46:11,710 --> 00:46:09,920
where we go so I kind of really kind of

1116
00:46:13,690 --> 00:46:11,720
liked that case even though it does

1117
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:13,700
nothing to suggest there have been real

1118
00:46:19,300 --> 00:46:16,250
UFO crashes I think shank Harbor is

1119
00:46:21,220 --> 00:46:19,310
extremely important because here is here

1120
00:46:23,350 --> 00:46:21,230
is a case where the object is seen in

1121
00:46:26,170 --> 00:46:23,360
the sky there's a photograph of it in

1122
00:46:28,540 --> 00:46:26,180
the sky and there's documentation that

1123
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:28,550
suggests of what what the Canadian

1124
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:30,290
government the American government neden

1125
00:46:36,530 --> 00:46:33,490
Soviets dead during during that event in

1126
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:36,540
1967 what is also very interesting is

1127
00:46:43,310 --> 00:46:40,410
the Air Force had decided to investigate

1128
00:46:46,250 --> 00:46:43,320
UFO a university to investigate UFOs

1129
00:46:47,780 --> 00:46:46,260
servic attend Project Blue Book and the

1130
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:47,790
documentation proves that was their

1131
00:46:52,730 --> 00:46:51,090
mission the N Blue Book ended now and in

1132
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:52,740
Chiang Harbor takes place during this

1133
00:46:56,780 --> 00:46:54,960
University of Colorado study so here's

1134
00:46:59,540 --> 00:46:56,790
the perfect opportunity for these guys

1135
00:47:01,430 --> 00:46:59,550
to investigate a case that has all the

1136
00:47:03,260 --> 00:47:01,440
elements you could expect all the chains

1137
00:47:05,570 --> 00:47:03,270
of evidence you could want to suggest

1138
00:47:08,090 --> 00:47:05,580
something is going on and they make a

1139
00:47:09,890 --> 00:47:08,100
phone call to Canada and discover that a

1140
00:47:11,540 --> 00:47:09,900
couple of the initial witnesses were

1141
00:47:13,220 --> 00:47:11,550
teenagers they through hell yeah there's

1142
00:47:15,860 --> 00:47:13,230
nothing to it yeah we're not we're not

1143
00:47:18,740 --> 00:47:15,870
interested well Chris Stiles and Dawn

1144
00:47:21,230 --> 00:47:18,750
ledger picked up the reins in the in the

1145
00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:21,240
1990s and were able to find some very

1146
00:47:25,130 --> 00:47:23,520
interesting documentation clearly

1147
00:47:29,030 --> 00:47:25,140
something fell into the wall out of shag

1148
00:47:30,650 --> 00:47:29,040
harbour clearly it was there for a week

1149
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:30,660
clearly it interacted with the

1150
00:47:33,860 --> 00:47:32,250
environment clearly the American

1151
00:47:36,980 --> 00:47:33,870
government got involved clearly the

1152
00:47:39,830 --> 00:47:36,990
Soviets got involved and then the object

1153
00:47:42,950 --> 00:47:39,840
or an object and another one disappeared

1154
00:47:45,500 --> 00:47:42,960
making taking off somehow so here's a

1155
00:47:47,510 --> 00:47:45,510
case that's very very good and maybe

1156
00:47:49,550 --> 00:47:47,520
better than laws we'll simply because of

1157
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:49,560
the documentation available collect now

1158
00:47:53,390 --> 00:47:50,730
some of the things that you've talked

1159
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:53,400
about there Kevin are absolutely

1160
00:47:57,260 --> 00:47:55,170
accurate in the sense that you have

1161
00:47:59,330 --> 00:47:57,270
identifiable witnesses that you can

1162
00:48:01,010 --> 00:47:59,340
attach names and faces to I've met some

1163
00:48:02,780 --> 00:48:01,020
of them down in shag harbour in that

1164
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:02,790
area there's other elements to that

1165
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:05,130
story where the witnesses remain

1166
00:48:09,710 --> 00:48:07,410
anonymous particularly the part about

1167
00:48:12,380 --> 00:48:09,720
the being joined by another underwater

1168
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:12,390
craft and then both of them traveling to

1169
00:48:17,060 --> 00:48:14,610
the Gulf of Maine and flying away but

1170
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:17,070
not to say that it didn't happen but we

1171
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:19,290
profiled that case in my film best

1172
00:48:23,540 --> 00:48:21,330
evidence and there's kind of a dividing

1173
00:48:25,130 --> 00:48:23,550
line between the stuff like a lot of

1174
00:48:26,630 --> 00:48:25,140
these cases where you can say yes that

1175
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:26,640
absolutely happened we have

1176
00:48:31,010 --> 00:48:28,530
documentation we have verifiable

1177
00:48:33,260 --> 00:48:31,020
witnesses fine and then there's the

1178
00:48:35,030 --> 00:48:33,270
stuff that may have happened you have

1179
00:48:36,590 --> 00:48:35,040
anonymous witnesses you have people that

1180
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:36,600
don't want to go on the record but tell

1181
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:38,730
you a story say they were there as

1182
00:48:45,740 --> 00:48:43,290
divers or whatever and the trick is how

1183
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:45,750
far do you want to take the conclusions

1184
00:48:49,610 --> 00:48:47,730
you can draw from that

1185
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:49,620
do you take it just to the point of

1186
00:48:54,770 --> 00:48:51,690
here's what we have that we can verify

1187
00:48:57,260 --> 00:48:54,780
stop or do you say well okay let's bring

1188
00:48:59,360 --> 00:48:57,270
in this anonymous stuff and perhaps

1189
00:49:02,210 --> 00:48:59,370
unverifiable stuff but still interesting

1190
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:02,220
and draw a tentative conclusion from

1191
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:05,010
that which is about as far as I'd ever

1192
00:49:09,620 --> 00:49:07,890
be willing to go but but I think you're

1193
00:49:11,060 --> 00:49:09,630
right the shagg case is very interesting

1194
00:49:13,340 --> 00:49:11,070
what is always struck me as most

1195
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:13,350
interesting about it besides the name

1196
00:49:19,460 --> 00:49:18,000
shag harbour which I find amusing I once

1197
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:19,470
was speaking at a conference at the

1198
00:49:23,720 --> 00:49:22,410
integratron Inn in Landers California

1199
00:49:26,660 --> 00:49:23,730
and I said if only you can get the folks

1200
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:26,670
from dildo Newfoundland to visit shag

1201
00:49:32,900 --> 00:49:30,510
harbour you would have a really really

1202
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:32,910
cool party when you have people come in

1203
00:49:48,910 --> 00:49:46,340
pull in but then I pull out wait this is

1204
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:48,920
the tangent show ladies and gentlemen

1205
00:49:53,420 --> 00:49:51,330
remember we're going on traditional

1206
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:53,430
radio soon so we have to be careful

1207
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:55,170
about this but you don't want to be like

1208
00:49:58,400 --> 00:49:57,090
Howard Stern go wait a minute Howard

1209
00:50:04,160 --> 00:49:58,410
Stern gets five hundred million dollars

1210
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:04,170
a year maybe we do in-n-out burger

1211
00:50:09,710 --> 00:50:07,920
perfect burger yeah those are all real

1212
00:50:10,910 --> 00:50:09,720
names it's the it's like you should do

1213
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:10,920
it show the fun you can have with real

1214
00:50:15,470 --> 00:50:12,930
place names but the thing about Sag

1215
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:15,480
Harbor as opposed to dildo Newfoundland

1216
00:50:20,210 --> 00:50:18,690
is the witnesses when they saw the

1217
00:50:22,370 --> 00:50:20,220
object from the sky come down thought it

1218
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:22,380
was a plane crash and they reported it

1219
00:50:27,260 --> 00:50:24,570
as such in most cases it was the

1220
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:27,270
military that classified it as an

1221
00:50:31,610 --> 00:50:29,970
unidentified flying object which doesn't

1222
00:50:33,740 --> 00:50:31,620
mean an extraterrestrial spacecraft it

1223
00:50:36,110 --> 00:50:33,750
just means a UFO something that was

1224
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:36,120
unexplained and his Don Leger has

1225
00:50:39,770 --> 00:50:37,890
pointed out a number of times to me said

1226
00:50:41,570 --> 00:50:39,780
as far as he knows that's the only time

1227
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:41,580
that that's ever happened usually it's

1228
00:50:45,020 --> 00:50:42,930
the other way around the witnesses call

1229
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:45,030
it the UFO and the Air Force wanders and

1230
00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:47,370
then says well here's what it was and in

1231
00:50:50,690 --> 00:50:48,690
this case you had something completely

1232
00:50:52,730 --> 00:50:50,700
opposite the witness is offering an

1233
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:52,740
explanation in the air force saying no

1234
00:50:56,290 --> 00:50:55,890
it's unidentified there is another there

1235
00:50:57,910 --> 00:50:56,300
is an

1236
00:51:00,880 --> 00:50:57,920
precedent for that of course you have

1237
00:51:02,170 --> 00:51:00,890
the 1994 nor ad phone call to the Rio

1238
00:51:03,210 --> 00:51:02,180
Grande County Sheriff in south-central

1239
00:51:06,790 --> 00:51:03,220
Colorado

1240
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:06,800
reporting what they claimed was some

1241
00:51:12,790 --> 00:51:10,370
unusual fire and you have witnesses that

1242
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:12,800
claimed that an object went down in the

1243
00:51:16,750 --> 00:51:15,050
area that NORAD had given in terms of

1244
00:51:18,700 --> 00:51:16,760
coordinates to the County Sheriff so

1245
00:51:20,380 --> 00:51:18,710
that you have one that's similar in that

1246
00:51:22,570 --> 00:51:20,390
regard they're reporting something a

1247
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:22,580
heat source that's unusual

1248
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:25,280
which then witnesses come forward

1249
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:27,680
unbeknownst to to them that nor I have

1250
00:51:32,380 --> 00:51:29,210
made the call they come forward and

1251
00:51:35,620 --> 00:51:32,390
report what appears to be a UFO so

1252
00:51:37,210 --> 00:51:35,630
actually a flotilla of them but but

1253
00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:37,220
that's a very good point I think the

1254
00:51:43,870 --> 00:51:40,400
fact that you do have such a turnaround

1255
00:51:45,310 --> 00:51:43,880
from your basic your basic scenario in

1256
00:51:47,170 --> 00:51:45,320
terms of the military actually being the

1257
00:51:49,060 --> 00:51:47,180
ones that are labeling this event I

1258
00:51:50,740 --> 00:51:49,070
think that is very important and you

1259
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:50,750
make a good point there Paul it's also

1260
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:52,490
very interesting where the shag harbour

1261
00:51:57,610 --> 00:51:55,370
case occurred and I know this because I

1262
00:51:58,960 --> 00:51:57,620
filmed a future film there two years ago

1263
00:52:01,630 --> 00:51:58,970
which is really cool

1264
00:52:04,690 --> 00:52:01,640
shag harbour is about I think 20 or 25

1265
00:52:06,220 --> 00:52:04,700
miles down the coast from what used to

1266
00:52:07,750 --> 00:52:06,230
be they call it now government point

1267
00:52:09,250 --> 00:52:07,760
there's a future film studio there now

1268
00:52:11,290 --> 00:52:09,260
they took the old military base and

1269
00:52:12,970 --> 00:52:11,300
turned it into a film studio wonderful

1270
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:12,980
expenditure of our provincial tax

1271
00:52:18,610 --> 00:52:15,530
dollars here but it used to be a

1272
00:52:20,110 --> 00:52:18,620
top-secret American they I believe they

1273
00:52:21,460 --> 00:52:20,120
leased the base from the Canadian

1274
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:21,470
government or there were Canadian

1275
00:52:25,060 --> 00:52:22,880
personnel there in American personnel

1276
00:52:27,220 --> 00:52:25,070
but the gist of it is they were it was a

1277
00:52:28,990 --> 00:52:27,230
top-secret listening post for Soviet

1278
00:52:32,500 --> 00:52:29,000
submarines in the North Atlantic and

1279
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:32,510
that the shag Harbor UFO when it went

1280
00:52:37,510 --> 00:52:34,610
into the water then allegedly traveled

1281
00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:37,520
up and sat off government point along

1282
00:52:42,250 --> 00:52:39,680
with a small flotilla of Canadian and

1283
00:52:43,900 --> 00:52:42,260
American naval vessels until it was

1284
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:43,910
joined by this other underwater craft

1285
00:52:49,150 --> 00:52:46,210
and then traveled away and flew away but

1286
00:52:51,940 --> 00:52:49,160
that strikes me as interesting that it

1287
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:51,950
would sort of land or say descend into

1288
00:52:57,400 --> 00:52:53,930
the water and then sit off the coast

1289
00:52:59,230 --> 00:52:57,410
from a very very secret military

1290
00:53:00,880 --> 00:52:59,240
installation it doesn't mean is

1291
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:00,890
extraterrestrial but again it adds an

1292
00:53:05,260 --> 00:53:03,530
extra a little extra veneer of interest

1293
00:53:07,130 --> 00:53:05,270
to the story but I think a lot of these

1294
00:53:09,290 --> 00:53:07,140
crash cases don't really have

1295
00:53:10,850 --> 00:53:09,300
why as I said before anybody would want

1296
00:53:13,130 --> 00:53:10,860
to crash I guess you don't get to choose

1297
00:53:15,110 --> 00:53:13,140
where you crash but the plains of San

1298
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:15,120
Agustin Aztec there's nothing really

1299
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:17,010
going on there but here you have a case

1300
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:18,810
where there is something going on there

1301
00:53:24,610 --> 00:53:21,570
is a military base of some importance

1302
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:24,620
and this this object sort of crashes or

1303
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:26,880
enters the water there I find that

1304
00:53:30,770 --> 00:53:28,890
interesting not conclusive just

1305
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:30,780
interesting we can do the same thing we

1306
00:53:35,090 --> 00:53:32,130
can do the same thing with the Las Vegas

1307
00:53:37,670 --> 00:53:35,100
crash in 1962 we have the object seen

1308
00:53:39,980 --> 00:53:37,680
sort of exploding in the sky over Las

1309
00:53:42,350 --> 00:53:39,990
Vegas dozens are witnessing Las Vegas

1310
00:53:44,900 --> 00:53:42,360
see this thing it's tracked on radar

1311
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:44,910
they actually scramble fighters to

1312
00:53:50,570 --> 00:53:48,690
intercept this thing and the once the

1313
00:53:53,630 --> 00:53:50,580
things seem to explode in the sky they

1314
00:53:55,820 --> 00:53:53,640
send out the Clark County Las Vegas beam

1315
00:53:58,010 --> 00:53:55,830
in Clark County Nevada rescue team and

1316
00:54:01,130 --> 00:53:58,020
they get up to the fences for the Nellis

1317
00:54:04,460 --> 00:54:01,140
gunnery ranges and have to stop because

1318
00:54:07,060 --> 00:54:04,470
now they're about to trespass on US Air

1319
00:54:10,790 --> 00:54:07,070
Force property so here's the area 51

1320
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:10,800
well area 51 is to the north part of the

1321
00:54:15,860 --> 00:54:13,890
north west of where this happened is OK

1322
00:54:18,350 --> 00:54:15,870
out toward Mesquite on the Utah border

1323
00:54:20,990 --> 00:54:18,360
so it's on the other side of the state

1324
00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:21,000
but but the Nellis Nellis takes up an

1325
00:54:25,340 --> 00:54:22,710
awful lot of the Southern Nevada for

1326
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:25,350
their gunnery ranges and the red flag

1327
00:54:31,790 --> 00:54:29,010
exercise the point simply is here's

1328
00:54:34,730 --> 00:54:31,800
here's a case where we have a report of

1329
00:54:37,130 --> 00:54:34,740
a UFO crash and it may have fallen on an

1330
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:37,140
Air Force installation well and the

1331
00:54:40,460 --> 00:54:38,730
other interesting thing the use of the

1332
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:40,470
term crashed here interesting thing

1333
00:54:43,970 --> 00:54:42,930
about shag harbour is if you accept some

1334
00:54:47,240 --> 00:54:43,980
of these things like the one you just

1335
00:54:49,010 --> 00:54:47,250
talked about a Roswell or Aztec if they

1336
00:54:52,070 --> 00:54:49,020
happen those would have been crashes and

1337
00:54:55,460 --> 00:54:52,080
one of the criticisms often raised by

1338
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:55,470
people myself included is a if they can

1339
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:57,450
get from there to here they seem pretty

1340
00:55:01,370 --> 00:54:59,520
clumsy to be crashing their spaceships

1341
00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:01,380
all over the place and B if they do

1342
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:02,880
crash their spaceships all over the

1343
00:55:07,730 --> 00:55:05,520
place they seem even more clumsy by not

1344
00:55:09,950 --> 00:55:07,740
retrieving the materials using their

1345
00:55:12,830 --> 00:55:09,960
advanced alien technology before we can

1346
00:55:15,380 --> 00:55:12,840
get our paws on them but shag Harbor you

1347
00:55:17,570 --> 00:55:15,390
could view Sag Harbor not as a crash but

1348
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:17,580
as a controlled entry into the water and

1349
00:55:22,730 --> 00:55:20,370
then a surveillance operation of a

1350
00:55:24,350 --> 00:55:22,740
particular military installation well

1351
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:24,360
you have there a couple of things one it

1352
00:55:29,450 --> 00:55:26,610
might not be in fact I would say it

1353
00:55:30,500 --> 00:55:29,460
isn't a crash if you view it as a UFO if

1354
00:55:33,530 --> 00:55:30,510
you want to take the extra-terrestrial

1355
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:33,540
thing not a crash but a controlled entry

1356
00:55:38,900 --> 00:55:36,450
and to basically doing underwater what

1357
00:55:41,060 --> 00:55:38,910
et supporters would say the aliens are

1358
00:55:43,460 --> 00:55:41,070
doing above us in the skies which is

1359
00:55:45,890 --> 00:55:43,470
surveilling our planet for various

1360
00:55:48,170 --> 00:55:45,900
reasons so I would set the shag Harbor

1361
00:55:52,010 --> 00:55:48,180
instantly on the side from the term

1362
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:52,020
crash and view it more as potentially a

1363
00:55:58,070 --> 00:55:55,410
crash but also possibly not a crash at

1364
00:55:59,930 --> 00:55:58,080
all but some just a UFO entering the

1365
00:56:02,450 --> 00:55:59,940
water that happened to be viewed doing

1366
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:02,460
so by witnesses one of the things you

1367
00:56:06,620 --> 00:56:04,650
say is one of the reasons I did the book

1368
00:56:08,450 --> 00:56:06,630
was because I was looking at the list of

1369
00:56:10,780 --> 00:56:08,460
UFO crashes that you can see on the

1370
00:56:14,510 --> 00:56:10,790
internet some of the lists are

1371
00:56:16,130 --> 00:56:14,520
approaching 300 or the top 300 and if

1372
00:56:17,660 --> 00:56:16,140
you break it out you know they're just

1373
00:56:19,580 --> 00:56:17,670
falling out of the sky with such

1374
00:56:21,620 --> 00:56:19,590
regularity and that was something that

1375
00:56:24,290 --> 00:56:21,630
struck me as well that they just they

1376
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:24,300
can conquer interstellar space but once

1377
00:56:28,550 --> 00:56:26,610
they hit an atmosphere they crash this

1378
00:56:30,830 --> 00:56:28,560
makes no sense to me well they can't

1379
00:56:32,780 --> 00:56:30,840
handle radar Kevin the radar takes

1380
00:56:35,240 --> 00:56:32,790
brings them down that's the popular

1381
00:56:36,770 --> 00:56:35,250
theory well they're built by the lowest

1382
00:56:39,170 --> 00:56:36,780
bidder you know it's just like the

1383
00:56:41,780 --> 00:56:39,180
politics here on earth you know look

1384
00:56:44,510 --> 00:56:41,790
look at the BP incident we can figure

1385
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:44,520
out how to drill for oil 5,000 feet

1386
00:56:48,310 --> 00:56:46,650
below the surface of the ocean but if

1387
00:56:50,420 --> 00:56:48,320
something goes wrong we can't fix it

1388
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:50,430
that has nothing to do with interstellar

1389
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:52,730
flight which is a very very complex

1390
00:56:57,170 --> 00:56:55,410
technologically advanced proposition

1391
00:56:59,420 --> 00:56:57,180
getting across interstellar space

1392
00:57:02,240 --> 00:56:59,430
requires a high level of technical

1393
00:57:04,940 --> 00:57:02,250
ability to do so yes but Kevin let me

1394
00:57:07,460 --> 00:57:04,950
interrupt you here we can assume even

1395
00:57:09,950 --> 00:57:07,470
for the sake of argument let's say there

1396
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:09,960
are interstellar craft coming here but

1397
00:57:13,790 --> 00:57:11,490
the craft that we see in our atmosphere

1398
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:13,800
may not be that it might be satellite

1399
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:15,690
ships there's a mother ship on the moon

1400
00:57:20,420 --> 00:57:17,370
the back side of the Moon or something

1401
00:57:22,380 --> 00:57:20,430
and they use lower grade lower level

1402
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:22,390
craft to explore here

1403
00:57:27,150 --> 00:57:25,330
using their full-size spaceships what my

1404
00:57:29,070 --> 00:57:27,160
point is simply this there's way too

1405
00:57:31,860 --> 00:57:29,080
many stories of crashes yeah

1406
00:57:34,530 --> 00:57:31,870
Paul is right on that respect there's

1407
00:57:37,110 --> 00:57:34,540
way too many stories let's look at where

1408
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:37,120
we are today and the numbers in the book

1409
00:57:42,450 --> 00:57:40,210
we start with a event in France in 840

1410
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:42,460
AD I'm not sure what what that is but I

1411
00:57:46,170 --> 00:57:43,690
really don't think it's an alien

1412
00:57:48,270 --> 00:57:46,180
spacecraft involved there but but it's

1413
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:48,280
been presented as such in a lot of

1414
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:49,810
different books so let's take a look at

1415
00:57:53,910 --> 00:57:51,970
that there was another one not long

1416
00:57:56,190 --> 00:57:53,920
after that was clearly ball lightning

1417
00:57:59,820 --> 00:57:56,200
there's a number of crashes that are

1418
00:58:02,700 --> 00:57:59,830
clearly bolide on my blog one of the

1419
00:58:04,830 --> 00:58:02,710
video bars they rotate through different

1420
00:58:07,350 --> 00:58:04,840
things if you put a video bar on a blog

1421
00:58:09,630 --> 00:58:07,360
and it rotates through different

1422
00:58:12,990 --> 00:58:09,640
different things that's you use keywords

1423
00:58:15,300 --> 00:58:13,000
for like UFOs and flying saucers and I

1424
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:15,310
put one up for meteorites and there's a

1425
00:58:19,980 --> 00:58:17,650
compilation of meteor falls somebody's

1426
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:19,990
put together 3 minutes and 19 seconds of

1427
00:58:25,410 --> 00:58:23,050
bolide from around the world and what

1428
00:58:27,510 --> 00:58:25,420
struck me looking at this is that this

1429
00:58:29,640 --> 00:58:27,520
when you look at these things begin to

1430
00:58:32,220 --> 00:58:29,650
break up it looks all for all the world

1431
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:32,230
like a lighted cockpit and the windows

1432
00:58:37,260 --> 00:58:34,930
of a craft as it's coming down clearly

1433
00:58:39,450 --> 00:58:37,270
is in meteorites clearly as a bolide but

1434
00:58:41,940 --> 00:58:39,460
if somebody catches a view of that in

1435
00:58:43,770 --> 00:58:41,950
the night sky and just sees it for a

1436
00:58:45,390 --> 00:58:43,780
split second they're gonna think

1437
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:45,400
something's still out of the sky and I

1438
00:58:51,300 --> 00:58:48,250
think some of the UFO crashes that we

1439
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:51,310
talked about today are bowline so one of

1440
00:58:55,890 --> 00:58:53,770
the things I did there was a show one

1441
00:58:57,510 --> 00:58:55,900
called meteorite man on the Science

1442
00:58:59,640 --> 00:58:57,520
Channel and that was how I got off on

1443
00:59:02,190 --> 00:58:59,650
this they showed some of those so I

1444
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:02,200
started looking for and when we get out

1445
00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:05,170
when we get a UFO crash we did it sounds

1446
00:59:08,670 --> 00:59:06,880
like that we've got to start looking to

1447
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:08,680
see if there's if there's a meteor fall

1448
00:59:14,100 --> 00:59:11,770
that relates to that event at that time

1449
00:59:18,210 --> 00:59:14,110
the other thing is the needles

1450
00:59:20,460 --> 00:59:18,220
California crash in 2008 that's George

1451
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:20,470
Knapp investigated clearly something

1452
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:23,290
fell clearly the military got there

1453
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:26,050
within 20 minutes with a half a dozen

1454
00:59:31,710 --> 00:59:28,330
helicopters retrieved it and took it

1455
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:31,720
away now Knapp doesn't believe nor do I

1456
00:59:35,940 --> 00:59:34,330
believe that it was extraterrestrial it

1457
00:59:37,609 --> 00:59:35,950
was obviously some kind of annex

1458
00:59:40,470 --> 00:59:37,619
their mental crap that got away from

1459
00:59:42,990 --> 00:59:40,480
area 51 or one of the experimental

1460
00:59:45,030 --> 00:59:43,000
ranges because the military got there so

1461
00:59:47,490 --> 00:59:45,040
fast I'll tell you what we're about to

1462
00:59:49,890 --> 00:59:47,500
split for our early break and then we

1463
00:59:52,589 --> 00:59:49,900
can pick up on this and a lot of other

1464
00:59:54,780 --> 00:59:52,599
case histories both real and maybe

1465
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:54,790
fanciful we have Kevin Randall the new

1466
00:59:58,620 --> 00:59:56,650
book is called crash co-hosts are

1467
01:00:01,250 --> 00:59:58,630
Christopher O'Brien and Paul Campbell

1468
01:00:03,109 --> 01:00:01,260
more on the other side of the power cast

1469
01:00:06,060 --> 01:00:03,119
[Music]

1470
01:00:07,829 --> 01:00:06,070
we want to hear from you if you have a

1471
01:00:11,339 --> 01:00:07,839
comment a question about the pair cast

1472
01:00:14,490 --> 01:00:11,349
send it to news at the pair cast com

1473
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:14,500
that's news at the pair cast calm and

1474
01:00:18,210 --> 01:00:16,510
don't forget to visit our forums where

1475
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:18,220
you can talk to fellow listeners just go

1476
01:00:23,220 --> 01:00:20,770
to the pair cast comm and click on the

1477
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:23,230
forum links that's the forum links at

1478
01:00:39,790 --> 01:00:33,410
welcome back to the parrot house with

1479
01:00:45,460 --> 01:00:43,450
Kevin Randell author of crash when UFOs

1480
01:00:48,430 --> 01:00:45,470
fall from the sky a history of famous

1481
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:48,440
incidents conspiracies and cover-ups we

1482
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:51,410
have a pair of co-hosts Paul Kimball and

1483
01:00:55,450 --> 01:00:53,570
Christopher O'Brien because we're

1484
01:00:58,390 --> 01:00:55,460
dealing with a giant in the UFO field

1485
01:01:00,310 --> 01:00:58,400
dr. Randall I wanted to just have you

1486
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:00,320
briefly summarize further with the

1487
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:02,330
needle case needles California before we

1488
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:04,330
go into other instances go ahead please

1489
01:01:09,580 --> 01:01:07,970
the needles California case is clearly

1490
01:01:13,030 --> 01:01:09,590
something fell from the sky

1491
01:01:15,790 --> 01:01:13,040
clearly it was retrieved they showed up

1492
01:01:17,980 --> 01:01:15,800
with helicopters of Sikorsky skycrane I

1493
01:01:19,390 --> 01:01:17,990
believe and they retrieve the thing fell

1494
01:01:22,030 --> 01:01:19,400
it fell in the middle of the night and

1495
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:22,040
it's gone witnesses on the ground seized

1496
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:24,410
the thing for all here it falls see the

1497
01:01:29,470 --> 01:01:27,050
result of the fall so we're dealing now

1498
01:01:31,450 --> 01:01:29,480
I think with a governmental project of

1499
01:01:33,250 --> 01:01:31,460
some kind if not extraterrestrial it's

1500
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:33,260
trust and faith and yet we see the

1501
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:36,170
needles California case show up on some

1502
01:01:39,490 --> 01:01:37,730
of the UFO crash lists well this is

1503
01:01:42,490 --> 01:01:39,500
something that should be removed there

1504
01:01:46,060 --> 01:01:42,500
are other cases like that where it's

1505
01:01:48,099 --> 01:01:46,070
clearly meteoric in Oregon or there's

1506
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:48,109
other natural phenomena that explains it

1507
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:49,730
but there are some cases that are very

1508
01:01:54,460 --> 01:01:52,850
interesting that are basically single

1509
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:54,470
witness and I think here of the kid

1510
01:01:59,920 --> 01:01:57,650
Gerardo case from 1941 the woman who has

1511
01:02:02,260 --> 01:01:59,930
come forward with at a Charlotte man and

1512
01:02:04,630 --> 01:02:02,270
it was her grandfather I believe who

1513
01:02:06,670 --> 01:02:04,640
talked about giving last life to these

1514
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:06,680
alien creatures it was called out the

1515
01:02:11,470 --> 01:02:08,570
middle of the night to have seen of a

1516
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:11,480
sometimes an accident and there were

1517
01:02:15,550 --> 01:02:13,730
little people involved little humanoid

1518
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:15,560
creatures of all that he gave the last

1519
01:02:19,930 --> 01:02:17,810
rites ooh and man was never sure whether

1520
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:19,940
one had survived for a short period of

1521
01:02:24,130 --> 01:02:22,010
time or if all of them were dead but

1522
01:02:26,830 --> 01:02:24,140
this was kind of a family tradition the

1523
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:26,840
problem is none of the people we talked

1524
01:02:31,690 --> 01:02:29,930
to today Charlotte man is at best a

1525
01:02:34,060 --> 01:02:31,700
secondhand witness and maybe even

1526
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:34,070
further removed from the case her sister

1527
01:02:38,020 --> 01:02:35,930
confirms that the family did talk about

1528
01:02:40,359 --> 01:02:38,030
this thing in the past there are other

1529
01:02:43,210 --> 01:02:40,369
people in the Cape Girardeau area who

1530
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:43,220
remember people talking about this one

1531
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:45,050
of them is the brother of the sheriff at

1532
01:02:48,940 --> 01:02:47,210
the time remember something about this

1533
01:02:51,670 --> 01:02:48,950
but what always has bothered me about

1534
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:51,680
the cape girardeau case is if this was

1535
01:02:54,900 --> 01:02:52,810
truly extra for

1536
01:02:57,780 --> 01:02:54,910
trill it means that the military was

1537
01:02:59,580 --> 01:02:57,790
involved in the retrieval in 1941 so the

1538
01:03:01,560 --> 01:02:59,590
reaction in Roswell would have been

1539
01:03:04,350 --> 01:03:01,570
different in 1947 they would have been

1540
01:03:06,330 --> 01:03:04,360
aware that these things happen it may be

1541
01:03:07,740 --> 01:03:06,340
a very few people knew about it but they

1542
01:03:11,370 --> 01:03:07,750
would have done a better job of

1543
01:03:13,950 --> 01:03:11,380
containing the Roswell case in 1947 had

1544
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:13,960
cape girardeau been extraterrestrial in

1545
01:03:17,850 --> 01:03:15,850
origin and yet you know it's an

1546
01:03:20,790 --> 01:03:17,860
intriguing intriguing case with some

1547
01:03:22,830 --> 01:03:20,800
very interesting directions to follow up

1548
01:03:26,070 --> 01:03:22,840
one thing then I guess we should

1549
01:03:28,140 --> 01:03:26,080
continue to mention here of the other

1550
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:28,150
cases you cover in your book any other

1551
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:31,690
so-called major crashes are really due

1552
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:34,170
to some kind of more conventional

1553
01:03:42,030 --> 01:03:39,490
mundane cause and I hesitate to bring it

1554
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:42,040
up only because I know the researcher

1555
01:03:46,110 --> 01:03:43,690
and I really haven't had a chance to

1556
01:03:48,090 --> 01:03:46,120
talk to him about this yet but Jim

1557
01:03:50,430 --> 01:03:48,100
Clarkson has been investigating a case I

1558
01:03:52,710 --> 01:03:50,440
think from 1978 in Washington and the

1559
01:03:55,980 --> 01:03:52,720
more I look at that case the more it

1560
01:03:58,530 --> 01:03:55,990
seems to be meteoric in origin the

1561
01:04:01,920 --> 01:03:58,540
intriguing part of the case however is

1562
01:04:04,140 --> 01:04:01,930
according to witnesses there was a large

1563
01:04:06,570 --> 01:04:04,150
military presence and he talks about

1564
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:06,580
them possibly being a National Guard

1565
01:04:12,330 --> 01:04:09,610
unit from Georgia which brings out all

1566
01:04:15,870 --> 01:04:12,340
kinds of ancillary problems including

1567
01:04:19,470 --> 01:04:15,880
Posse common products which is in I

1568
01:04:21,540 --> 01:04:19,480
guess the United States the military

1569
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:21,550
cannot be used for law enforcement

1570
01:04:26,070 --> 01:04:24,250
purposes except for two things by

1571
01:04:27,930 --> 01:04:26,080
presidential direction or drug

1572
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:27,940
enforcement which means if we have

1573
01:04:33,450 --> 01:04:30,610
Georgia National Guard in Washington

1574
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:33,460
state blocking roads as people said

1575
01:04:37,980 --> 01:04:35,290
we've got a clear violation of poppy

1576
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:37,990
common solder and it's pretty clear that

1577
01:04:42,510 --> 01:04:40,090
that they were guarding guarding the

1578
01:04:45,930 --> 01:04:42,520
roads the question that needs to be

1579
01:04:48,570 --> 01:04:45,940
asked is was the Georgia National Guard

1580
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:48,580
there on some kind of a training mission

1581
01:04:55,650 --> 01:04:53,130
and people ran into them by accident or

1582
01:04:57,750 --> 01:04:55,660
coincidentally right after this thing

1583
01:04:59,910 --> 01:04:57,760
was seen to fall I know that the Iowa

1584
01:05:01,920 --> 01:04:59,920
National Guard one of the things they do

1585
01:05:04,950 --> 01:05:01,930
is look for other states to go to train

1586
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:04,960
because it gives you an opportunity to

1587
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:06,530
deal with an environment

1588
01:05:11,290 --> 01:05:09,650
that is new to you and presents problems

1589
01:05:14,370 --> 01:05:11,300
that you may not face in your home

1590
01:05:17,770 --> 01:05:14,380
environment so it teaches you to to be

1591
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:17,780
to respond to the unexpected so the fact

1592
01:05:21,730 --> 01:05:19,130
that you've got Georgia National Guard

1593
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:21,740
in Washington training isn't that

1594
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:23,930
unusual if they are in fact guarding the

1595
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:25,490
roads and turning people back from a

1596
01:05:30,190 --> 01:05:27,650
crash site well that's a violation of

1597
01:05:33,100 --> 01:05:30,200
numerous laws so it's an interesting

1598
01:05:34,930 --> 01:05:33,110
case but I'm beginning to think that the

1599
01:05:38,230 --> 01:05:34,940
explanation for that case may be

1600
01:05:39,850 --> 01:05:38,240
meteoric and and I really and the only

1601
01:05:41,770 --> 01:05:39,860
reason I hesitate to say anything now is

1602
01:05:43,780 --> 01:05:41,780
because I wanted to discuss it with Jim

1603
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:43,790
Clarkson because he's done an awful lot

1604
01:05:47,350 --> 01:05:45,410
of work on this case over the last 20

1605
01:05:49,810 --> 01:05:47,360
years we have a question from another

1606
01:05:51,670 --> 01:05:49,820
member of the pair cast forums Kevin a

1607
01:05:53,020 --> 01:05:51,680
fellow named well I'm sure he's not

1608
01:05:55,990 --> 01:05:53,030
named this unless his parents are

1609
01:06:01,800 --> 01:05:56,000
terribly strange Blowfish which would be

1610
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:04,780
understandable he's from Australia and

1611
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:07,370
he says g'day jean-paul and Kevin and

1612
01:06:11,410 --> 01:06:08,810
that's all I'm gonna do for an

1613
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:11,420
Australian accent but he says mr. Kevin

1614
01:06:14,980 --> 01:06:13,610
RAL what's the biggest UFO hoax and I

1615
01:06:17,260 --> 01:06:14,990
don't think he's talking about just

1616
01:06:19,420 --> 01:06:17,270
crashes so let's broaden it out a bit

1617
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:19,430
here what's the biggest UFO hoax you

1618
01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:21,530
have come across and let me suggest one

1619
01:06:25,210 --> 01:06:23,090
to you Kevin that you've written about

1620
01:06:28,630 --> 01:06:25,220
recently and see if this is your number

1621
01:06:31,270 --> 01:06:28,640
one hoax the alien autopsy film maybe

1622
01:06:34,090 --> 01:06:31,280
alien abductions qualified to but is the

1623
01:06:36,700 --> 01:06:34,100
alien autopsy film the biggest UFO hoax

1624
01:06:39,190 --> 01:06:36,710
of all time and if not what do you think

1625
01:06:41,860 --> 01:06:39,200
is when the question was posed my

1626
01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:41,870
thoughts were mostly in the United

1627
01:06:45,490 --> 01:06:43,520
States and I was thinking of a great

1628
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:45,500
scoutmaster case from Florida where the

1629
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:48,410
guy was burned by a ladder UFO Maury

1630
01:06:51,820 --> 01:06:50,090
island popped into my mind which is

1631
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:51,830
created between treat that in the park

1632
01:06:55,660 --> 01:06:52,970
and talk about some of the things

1633
01:06:59,260 --> 01:06:55,670
they're dealing autopsy given its

1634
01:07:01,390 --> 01:06:59,270
worldwide distribution that has to be

1635
01:07:03,340 --> 01:07:01,400
number one that has to be number one and

1636
01:07:04,750 --> 01:07:03,350
what is interesting and I'm and I've

1637
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:04,760
been running a poll on my blog about

1638
01:07:09,370 --> 01:07:07,130
this you you what do you think of the

1639
01:07:11,230 --> 01:07:09,380
alien autopsy I am actually stunned

1640
01:07:13,810 --> 01:07:11,240
people still believe that thing is Reno

1641
01:07:15,460 --> 01:07:13,820
you've got you've got the guy who

1642
01:07:18,220 --> 01:07:15,470
started a train Santilli

1643
01:07:20,380 --> 01:07:18,230
telling us that the tense footage was a

1644
01:07:22,809 --> 01:07:20,390
hoax and people say well the

1645
01:07:25,029 --> 01:07:22,819
it's okay we've got some of mantle who's

1646
01:07:26,349 --> 01:07:25,039
investigated this thing since the very

1647
01:07:28,299 --> 01:07:26,359
beginning saying was a hoax

1648
01:07:29,769 --> 01:07:28,309
and numerous participants in it

1649
01:07:32,140 --> 01:07:29,779
including the production company that

1650
01:07:34,809 --> 01:07:32,150
did it some of the actors who you see in

1651
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:34,819
the film saying it's the hope the

1652
01:07:38,890 --> 01:07:36,650
explaining how they did it and yet there

1653
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:38,900
are people who still believe this thing

1654
01:07:43,660 --> 01:07:41,450
is real so yeah you're right the only

1655
01:07:46,120 --> 01:07:43,670
non top you have got to be the biggest

1656
01:07:47,859 --> 01:07:46,130
hoax in history if you just want the

1657
01:07:50,799 --> 01:07:47,869
strangest things isn't it because I was

1658
01:07:52,450 --> 01:07:50,809
at a UFO conference I think about four

1659
01:07:53,859 --> 01:07:52,460
or five years ago and there was a guy

1660
01:07:56,049 --> 01:07:53,869
there he was doing some of the

1661
01:07:58,059 --> 01:07:56,059
audio-visual stuff and he he pulled me

1662
01:08:02,680 --> 01:07:58,069
aside he said look have you heard about

1663
01:08:05,620 --> 01:08:02,690
alternative three and I said well yeah I

1664
01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:05,630
said well well no no I haven't he said

1665
01:08:09,460 --> 01:08:07,609
any 15 minutes I had to listen to this

1666
01:08:11,140 --> 01:08:09,470
guy tell me about how this was this was

1667
01:08:14,289 --> 01:08:11,150
it this was the big truth this was the

1668
01:08:15,940 --> 01:08:14,299
one and so I went home and I did a

1669
01:08:17,740 --> 01:08:15,950
little googling and I checked on

1670
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:17,750
alternative three and you know I realize

1671
01:08:22,990 --> 01:08:20,210
that's a hoax it was done for television

1672
01:08:24,099 --> 01:08:23,000
the people who did it admitted it you

1673
01:08:26,860 --> 01:08:24,109
know it's kind of a War of the Worlds

1674
01:08:28,300 --> 01:08:26,870
thing and yet here and he wasn't the

1675
01:08:30,939 --> 01:08:28,310
only one there were still people that

1676
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:30,949
and his answer so I emailed him back his

1677
01:08:34,870 --> 01:08:33,290
answer when I said look this is what it

1678
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:34,880
was he says well that's what they were

1679
01:08:40,329 --> 01:08:37,730
told to do once they let the truth out

1680
01:08:42,970 --> 01:08:40,339
the men in black the powers that be the

1681
01:08:45,099 --> 01:08:42,980
whomever came and made them concoct this

1682
01:08:47,649 --> 01:08:45,109
cover story because they they put the

1683
01:08:49,059 --> 01:08:47,659
truth out and the same thing I hear the

1684
01:08:51,879 --> 01:08:49,069
same thing now with the alien autopsy

1685
01:08:54,910 --> 01:08:51,889
thing you know the guys who hope stit

1686
01:08:57,550 --> 01:08:54,920
admit it they'll tell you how they did

1687
01:08:59,800 --> 01:08:57,560
it and yet you still have people like ed

1688
01:09:03,099 --> 01:08:59,810
gehrman and others on UFO updates for

1689
01:09:05,919 --> 01:09:03,109
instance who insists well okay but if

1690
01:09:08,079 --> 01:09:05,929
it's it's yeah maybe but it's so real

1691
01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:08,089
even though it's a hoax and unless it's

1692
01:09:13,209 --> 01:09:09,770
one of the unfortunate things Paul that

1693
01:09:15,579 --> 01:09:13,219
goes on even Jim Mosley and gray Barker

1694
01:09:17,530 --> 01:09:15,589
had this drunken session years ago where

1695
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:17,540
they write the strafe letter which is a

1696
01:09:19,749 --> 01:09:18,650
letter they send the George Adamski

1697
01:09:22,419 --> 01:09:19,759
saying that the State Department

1698
01:09:25,539 --> 01:09:22,429
recognizes his contact claims is genuine

1699
01:09:28,510 --> 01:09:25,549
and you know we may be expecting that a

1700
01:09:30,099 --> 01:09:28,520
damn ski would adopt that as part of his

1701
01:09:31,450 --> 01:09:30,109
story even though it was obviously a

1702
01:09:32,379 --> 01:09:31,460
hoax but there's still people to this

1703
01:09:34,959 --> 01:09:32,389
day and age

1704
01:09:37,930 --> 01:09:34,969
this drunken session where they wrote

1705
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:37,940
these hoax letters it was all real that

1706
01:09:42,459 --> 01:09:39,650
there was somebody in the State

1707
01:09:43,780 --> 01:09:42,469
Department named re strength well and

1708
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:43,790
you know there's so many of these

1709
01:09:48,399 --> 01:09:45,650
stories there's one it's even on the

1710
01:09:51,249 --> 01:09:48,409
para caste forums now about Greg Bishop

1711
01:09:52,660 --> 01:09:51,259
and it talks about Carl block called the

1712
01:09:54,490 --> 01:09:52,670
will to believe and he was speaking

1713
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:54,500
specifically about Roswell but I you

1714
01:09:59,830 --> 01:09:56,210
know I think Carl was right on that this

1715
01:10:02,020 --> 01:09:59,840
infects all of ufology not the serious

1716
01:10:04,060 --> 01:10:02,030
researchers or at least not most of them

1717
01:10:05,620 --> 01:10:04,070
but the subculture of ufology there was

1718
01:10:07,660 --> 01:10:05,630
somebody I think it was Adam go rightly

1719
01:10:10,540 --> 01:10:07,670
posted this thing that Greg Bishop was a

1720
01:10:13,990 --> 01:10:10,550
CIA disinformation agent and his code

1721
01:10:16,390 --> 01:10:14,000
name was HB 44 he posted it on Greg's

1722
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:16,400
birthday when Greg turned 44 years old

1723
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:18,770
now as soon as this goes up a couple of

1724
01:10:22,689 --> 01:10:20,449
us had some fun with it for a few hours

1725
01:10:24,430 --> 01:10:22,699
and then you know okay there you go

1726
01:10:28,810 --> 01:10:24,440
fine jokes over happy birthday

1727
01:10:30,070 --> 01:10:28,820
forty-four great no it lives on every

1728
01:10:31,870 --> 01:10:30,080
now and then it pops up in the

1729
01:10:33,700 --> 01:10:31,880
discussion forum somewhere going did you

1730
01:10:36,879 --> 01:10:33,710
know Greg Bishop is a disinformation

1731
01:10:40,270 --> 01:10:36,889
agent and they link to that post it

1732
01:10:43,030 --> 01:10:40,280
boggles the mind nothing ever dies on

1733
01:10:44,830 --> 01:10:43,040
the Internet you studied psychology give

1734
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:44,840
me a bit of psychological insight into

1735
01:10:50,140 --> 01:10:47,330
why that that kind of phenomenon alien

1736
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:50,150
autopsy alternative 3 Greg Bishop is a

1737
01:10:55,870 --> 01:10:53,210
CIA agent any of that stuff why second

1738
01:11:00,729 --> 01:10:55,880
one your uncle has labeled me as a

1739
01:11:04,030 --> 01:11:00,739
government agent he did a UFO crash at

1740
01:11:05,590 --> 01:11:04,040
Roswell and we had suggested there was

1741
01:11:08,020 --> 01:11:05,600
no crash over on the plains of san

1742
01:11:09,129 --> 01:11:08,030
agustin and he roused something he was

1743
01:11:10,990 --> 01:11:09,139
think that Randle and Schmitt were

1744
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:11,000
government agents attempting to direct

1745
01:11:15,340 --> 01:11:12,800
attention away from the san agustin

1746
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:15,350
where one was found alive so this goes

1747
01:11:20,020 --> 01:11:18,170
on somebody actually said that I was I

1748
01:11:23,020 --> 01:11:20,030
had been working with Hector quintanilla

1749
01:11:25,450 --> 01:11:23,030
in Project Blue Book the guy since I was

1750
01:11:27,340 --> 01:11:25,460
in high school at the time I wasn't

1751
01:11:29,290 --> 01:11:27,350
working with the Air Force on that well

1752
01:11:41,169 --> 01:11:29,300
you know what you were a really smart

1753
01:11:43,959 --> 01:11:41,179
person but Karl Karl was right there is

1754
01:11:45,729 --> 01:11:43,969
a will to believe the flip side of that

1755
01:11:46,330 --> 01:11:45,739
of course is the will do visibly there

1756
01:11:48,669 --> 01:11:46,340
are new you

1757
01:11:51,609 --> 01:11:48,679
therefore there are no extraterrestrial

1758
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:51,619
visitation there is any sighting that

1759
01:11:57,879 --> 01:11:55,010
suggests there is must be a hole so the

1760
01:12:00,399 --> 01:11:57,889
sword cuts both ways but it's people who

1761
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:00,409
are so wrapped up in their belief

1762
01:12:06,189 --> 01:12:04,489
structures that they cannot see the

1763
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:06,199
evidence on the other side they will

1764
01:12:10,149 --> 01:12:08,210
accept the evidence that proves their

1765
01:12:13,209 --> 01:12:10,159
point they will reject everything else

1766
01:12:16,300 --> 01:12:13,219
as if it doesn't exist and that's what

1767
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:16,310
we get into so that when I say that

1768
01:12:22,089 --> 01:12:19,489
Frank Kaufmann lied about his

1769
01:12:24,129 --> 01:12:22,099
involvement in the roswell case as we

1770
01:12:26,589 --> 01:12:24,139
were able to prove once we got the

1771
01:12:28,510 --> 01:12:26,599
documentation there are people who still

1772
01:12:30,220 --> 01:12:28,520
like to me and say how do you know

1773
01:12:33,220 --> 01:12:30,230
Kaufmann wasn't a government

1774
01:12:37,689 --> 01:12:33,230
disinformation agent and the answer is

1775
01:12:39,609 --> 01:12:37,699
because he's a liar we we know the

1776
01:12:43,030 --> 01:12:39,619
documents he produced he forged

1777
01:12:45,070 --> 01:12:43,040
documents we know the lies that he told

1778
01:12:46,810 --> 01:12:45,080
we've got it he said he was a master

1779
01:12:49,060 --> 01:12:46,820
sergeant who had been trained in

1780
01:12:50,530 --> 01:12:49,070
intelligence and he showed his documents

1781
01:12:52,209 --> 01:12:50,540
to prove it and when we got a hold of

1782
01:12:53,830 --> 01:12:52,219
the original documents we found out he'd

1783
01:12:55,709 --> 01:12:53,840
been a staff sergeant and he even

1784
01:12:58,720 --> 01:12:55,719
trained in administration there was no

1785
01:13:00,790 --> 01:12:58,730
training in intelligent work anywhere in

1786
01:13:03,189 --> 01:13:00,800
his records and yet people still write

1787
01:13:05,339 --> 01:13:03,199
to me say well how do you know that that

1788
01:13:08,109 --> 01:13:05,349
Frank Hoffman wasn't a government

1789
01:13:11,979 --> 01:13:08,119
disinformation agent and doing his job

1790
01:13:13,810 --> 01:13:11,989
and so that goes on and that's part of

1791
01:13:15,490 --> 01:13:13,820
the best part of the problem with UFOs

1792
01:13:17,500 --> 01:13:15,500
the other problem is we we keep

1793
01:13:19,780 --> 01:13:17,510
recycling everything every five to seven

1794
01:13:21,700 --> 01:13:19,790
years and so the new people coming in

1795
01:13:25,270 --> 01:13:21,710
just fine

1796
01:13:26,890 --> 01:13:25,280
they'll find the Philadelphia Experiment

1797
01:13:29,470 --> 01:13:26,900
and they'll be convinced that's true

1798
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:29,480
even though Thomas Lee yong-dae has been

1799
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:32,449
identified that Carlos znd who claimed

1800
01:13:38,290 --> 01:13:35,570
the ship was teleported admittedly he

1801
01:13:41,169 --> 01:13:38,300
made the thing up and his family said

1802
01:13:44,830 --> 01:13:41,179
the annotations in the book struck me as

1803
01:13:45,939 --> 01:13:44,840
odd Carlos en de and I always assume

1804
01:13:47,470 --> 01:13:45,949
everybody knows what I'm talking about

1805
01:13:50,649 --> 01:13:47,480
here but Collison und was this guy who

1806
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:50,659
had got a hold of a copy of the case for

1807
01:13:55,629 --> 01:13:52,730
the UFO by Moore escape Jeff's Jessup

1808
01:13:57,129 --> 01:13:55,639
and the underlying passages and he wrote

1809
01:13:58,629 --> 01:13:57,139
it and of course it looked like it was

1810
01:14:00,430 --> 01:13:58,639
three people and he'd sent it to the

1811
01:14:02,170 --> 01:14:00,440
office Naval Research

1812
01:14:04,330 --> 01:14:02,180
- decided it was a load of crap and

1813
01:14:06,910 --> 01:14:04,340
threw it away but but a Hindi did that

1814
01:14:09,490 --> 01:14:06,920
to everything in what cracks me up was

1815
01:14:11,050 --> 01:14:09,500
his family said yeah he would annotate

1816
01:14:13,930 --> 01:14:11,060
birthday cards and send them back to

1817
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:13,940
people and I did a story about PN day

1818
01:14:18,430 --> 01:14:16,130
letters in official UFO magazine and the

1819
01:14:21,209 --> 01:14:18,440
yen day got ahold other Karl's and he's

1820
01:14:24,310 --> 01:14:21,219
name was Carlos call Alan but he got a

1821
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:24,320
hold of it and he annotated it and said

1822
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:26,690
set it set it back which so I got a copy

1823
01:14:30,939 --> 01:14:28,130
of that which I think it's pretty funny

1824
01:14:33,189 --> 01:14:30,949
but people will so talk about this this

1825
01:14:34,630 --> 01:14:33,199
idiotic Philadelphia experiment as if

1826
01:14:35,890 --> 01:14:34,640
it's real there's not a shred of

1827
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:35,900
evidence that ever took place

1828
01:14:40,060 --> 01:14:38,330
bill more in his book on the

1829
01:14:42,310 --> 01:14:40,070
Philadelphia Experiment publishes this

1830
01:14:45,100 --> 01:14:42,320
article that was supposedly published in

1831
01:14:48,330 --> 01:14:45,110
a newspaper but it's you know it's just

1832
01:14:51,729 --> 01:14:48,340
the one column of it there is not a

1833
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:51,739
single name in that newspaper article

1834
01:14:56,530 --> 01:14:55,250
and I and I challenge anybody to find a

1835
01:14:59,410 --> 01:14:56,540
newspaper article where there's not a

1836
01:15:00,850 --> 01:14:59,420
single name it talks about the event

1837
01:15:03,939 --> 01:15:00,860
taking place that it's having on the

1838
01:15:06,220 --> 01:15:03,949
city docks the waitress said the city

1839
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:06,230
police responded who are these people

1840
01:15:09,850 --> 01:15:08,449
what city police what docks went

1841
01:15:13,870 --> 01:15:09,860
waitress what bar

1842
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:13,880
not a single identifiable landmark named

1843
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:16,010
person in that article and yet people

1844
01:15:19,270 --> 01:15:17,690
still believe this ship was teleported

1845
01:15:24,130 --> 01:15:19,280
that would be another hoax for the guy

1846
01:15:26,650 --> 01:15:24,140
in Australia yes yeah I've often said

1847
01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:26,660
that you know you haven't made it as a

1848
01:15:31,030 --> 01:15:29,090
UFO researcher or personality or

1849
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:31,040
whatever until you've been accused of

1850
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:33,530
being a government agent so it's it's

1851
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:35,090
kind of like you're no longer a virgin

1852
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:37,489
you're now a government agent and I

1853
01:15:41,290 --> 01:15:38,810
remember seeing my name for the first

1854
01:15:43,060 --> 01:15:41,300
time linked to being a government agent

1855
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:43,070
and it was somebody who had written that

1856
01:15:47,350 --> 01:15:45,410
I as a joke on my blog posted because

1857
01:15:50,650 --> 01:15:47,360
Carlock and I used to joke about this

1858
01:15:52,900 --> 01:15:50,660
he was MJ zero and I was MJ 13 those

1859
01:15:55,450 --> 01:15:52,910
were little code names we used in emails

1860
01:15:57,550 --> 01:15:55,460
to each other and so I posted just after

1861
01:15:59,800 --> 01:15:57,560
Carl passed away I think you know I'm

1862
01:16:02,410 --> 01:15:59,810
sad to see MJ zero go

1863
01:16:04,870 --> 01:16:02,420
I guess this MJ 13 I'm the last guy

1864
01:16:07,150 --> 01:16:04,880
standing and somebody actually thought

1865
01:16:08,380 --> 01:16:07,160
it was serious which I'm sure Karl would

1866
01:16:10,380 --> 01:16:08,390
have thought was funny if he was still

1867
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:10,390
around or maybe he does now were

1868
01:16:22,620 --> 01:16:19,930
Karam I see is there a secret evil

1869
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:22,630
agenda two strange creatures from the

1870
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:24,970
darkest corners of the mind roam the

1871
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:27,370
earth is there evidence for mind control

1872
01:16:33,300 --> 01:16:30,370
time travel or devious government

1873
01:16:35,820 --> 01:16:33,310
conspiracies find out the inside scoop

1874
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:35,830
on the latest conspiracies Paranormal

1875
01:16:40,050 --> 01:16:38,410
Activity an important phenomenon when

1876
01:16:42,810 --> 01:16:40,060
you subscribe to Tim Beckley's

1877
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:42,820
conspiracy girl it's jam-packed with

1878
01:16:48,750 --> 01:16:45,850
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1879
01:16:51,480 --> 01:16:48,760
and the best news it's absolutely free

1880
01:16:54,210 --> 01:16:51,490
set it right to your mailbox plus a

1881
01:16:57,090 --> 01:16:54,220
bonus free email newsletter sent out

1882
01:17:00,180 --> 01:16:57,100
every Friday simply sent an email with

1883
01:17:04,890 --> 01:17:00,190
your name and address to Mister UFO at

1884
01:17:08,850 --> 01:17:04,900
web TV net attached to mr. UFO at web TV

1885
01:17:11,860 --> 01:17:08,860
net find out what they don't want you to

1886
01:17:11,870 --> 01:17:23,100
[Music]

1887
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:25,870
Randall is here he's author of crash

1888
01:17:30,339 --> 01:17:28,610
when UFOs fall from the sky a history of

1889
01:17:31,060 --> 01:17:30,349
famous incidents conspiracies and

1890
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:31,070
cover-ups

1891
01:17:36,339 --> 01:17:34,250
Marco host Chris roll Brian Paul

1892
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:36,349
Campbell Chris jump in with a question

1893
01:17:41,410 --> 01:17:39,650
you know I've always had a problem with

1894
01:17:43,899 --> 01:17:41,420
the whole subject of crash retrievals

1895
01:17:46,330 --> 01:17:43,909
and there is one exception and that is

1896
01:17:50,290 --> 01:17:46,340
an event that allegedly occurred on

1897
01:17:52,330 --> 01:17:50,300
April 16 1969 in the in the San Luis

1898
01:17:55,990 --> 01:17:52,340
Valley where I investigated for many

1899
01:17:58,240 --> 01:17:56,000
years and the two witnesses are very

1900
01:18:00,580 --> 01:17:58,250
credible there were two archaeologists

1901
01:18:02,410 --> 01:18:00,590
who were doing a dig you know the famous

1902
01:18:04,870 --> 01:18:02,420
cattle guard site which has some of the

1903
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:04,880
earliest remains of humans in North

1904
01:18:12,070 --> 01:18:08,570
America and they claim that t f4

1905
01:18:15,250 --> 01:18:12,080
phantoms chased a small scout ship type

1906
01:18:17,530 --> 01:18:15,260
object over the Sangre de Cristo's to

1907
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:17,540
the east and that they were chasing it

1908
01:18:23,530 --> 01:18:20,570
around this 49 square mile Great Sand

1909
01:18:26,859 --> 01:18:23,540
Dunes dune field and at one point the

1910
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:26,869
object was trying to out turn the Jets

1911
01:18:31,419 --> 01:18:29,810
and it supposedly clipped the top of a

1912
01:18:35,589 --> 01:18:31,429
dune cart wheeled into the dune field

1913
01:18:39,070 --> 01:18:35,599
and crashed and according to Glenna Beck

1914
01:18:42,220 --> 01:18:39,080
I'm not making that name up relationship

1915
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:42,230
to that other Glen whatever no I believe

1916
01:18:45,790 --> 01:18:44,810
she was a archaeologist from Stanford

1917
01:18:47,620 --> 01:18:45,800
and her husband was also an

1918
01:18:49,629 --> 01:18:47,630
archaeologist they were there also with

1919
01:18:52,410 --> 01:18:49,639
their teenage son they claimed the

1920
01:18:55,330 --> 01:18:52,420
following day that seven flatbed

1921
01:18:58,120 --> 01:18:55,340
trailers or semis with flatbed trailers

1922
01:19:00,040 --> 01:18:58,130
came out laid down a some sort of like

1923
01:19:02,620 --> 01:19:00,050
metal portable roadway over the dune

1924
01:19:04,930 --> 01:19:02,630
field and hauled this thing away it took

1925
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:04,940
quite a bit of effort for them to get

1926
01:19:09,790 --> 01:19:07,250
out to the to the place where this

1927
01:19:11,260 --> 01:19:09,800
allegedly had crashed and then they they

1928
01:19:12,850 --> 01:19:11,270
took it away you know put a tarp on it

1929
01:19:15,550 --> 01:19:12,860
and took it away are you familiar with

1930
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:15,560
this particular case so Kevin no and I

1931
01:19:21,430 --> 01:19:17,690
know it's not without well known in

1932
01:19:26,700 --> 01:19:24,580
one of the things show a host of a

1933
01:19:29,610 --> 01:19:26,710
no-show who told me about a crash in

1934
01:19:31,240 --> 01:19:29,620
Minnesota that took place last year

1935
01:19:33,970 --> 01:19:31,250
coincidentally on the same day that

1936
01:19:36,310 --> 01:19:33,980
something supposedly fell into the river

1937
01:19:38,080 --> 01:19:36,320
in Ottawa the Christmas Kowski had

1938
01:19:41,350 --> 01:19:38,090
helped me outward so that that's not in

1939
01:19:46,530 --> 01:19:41,360
the book in my book and and neither is

1940
01:19:50,860 --> 01:19:48,970
rational people involved in validate

1941
01:19:52,630 --> 01:19:50,870
right then they went on the record

1942
01:19:55,390 --> 01:19:52,640
they've actually they've actually done a

1943
01:19:58,360 --> 01:19:55,400
video of full length of at least Glenda

1944
01:20:00,640 --> 01:19:58,370
has the the wife of the couple has

1945
01:20:03,190 --> 01:20:00,650
actually appeared in front of a camera

1946
01:20:05,260 --> 01:20:03,200
and done a full length interview about

1947
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:05,270
this it's just one of those cases that

1948
01:20:09,550 --> 01:20:06,770
slip by and that not many people know

1949
01:20:12,550 --> 01:20:09,560
about it another researcher who was

1950
01:20:14,020 --> 01:20:12,560
quite proprietary and in nature there's

1951
01:20:15,370 --> 01:20:14,030
one that uncovered this that's why I've

1952
01:20:17,110 --> 01:20:15,380
never I've always stayed away from her

1953
01:20:18,460 --> 01:20:17,120
because I don't want him to sue me he's

1954
01:20:21,570 --> 01:20:18,470
one of those guys they'll sue at the

1955
01:20:25,990 --> 01:20:21,580
drop of the Hat so I have not really

1956
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:26,000
published my digging on this but it does

1957
01:20:30,010 --> 01:20:28,610
have it does hold water in my estimation

1958
01:20:32,110 --> 01:20:30,020
of course we do have the La Veta

1959
01:20:35,500 --> 01:20:32,120
military operations low flight training

1960
01:20:38,410 --> 01:20:35,510
area over the song grace where these

1961
01:20:40,450 --> 01:20:38,420
where the object and the Jets came from

1962
01:20:42,520 --> 01:20:40,460
so you know my guess is maybe it was

1963
01:20:44,500 --> 01:20:42,530
some sort of advanced but you know

1964
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:44,510
pilots drone or something but the

1965
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:46,850
description is of a of a scout ship a

1966
01:20:51,220 --> 01:20:48,890
small 10 to 12-foot scout ship and at

1967
01:20:52,570 --> 01:20:51,230
one point the archaeologists claimed

1968
01:20:54,100 --> 01:20:52,580
that the thing was less than 50 feet

1969
01:20:55,870 --> 01:20:54,110
over their head so they've got a pretty

1970
01:20:59,050 --> 01:20:55,880
good look at it middle of the day but

1971
01:21:03,280 --> 01:20:59,060
that's one April 16 1969 for anybody

1972
01:21:04,480 --> 01:21:03,290
wants to do some diggin on that I don't

1973
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:04,490
think it's a good year unless somebody's

1974
01:21:09,010 --> 01:21:05,810
threatened to sue me at some point

1975
01:21:11,370 --> 01:21:09,020
during it well you've been accused

1976
01:21:14,260 --> 01:21:11,380
you've been accused of being a being a

1977
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:14,270
agent and and you've probably been

1978
01:21:17,710 --> 01:21:16,370
threatened to be sued I have not had

1979
01:21:22,030 --> 01:21:17,720
either of those things happen I guess I

1980
01:21:23,500 --> 01:21:22,040
haven't made it yet I tried to deserve

1981
01:21:25,240 --> 01:21:23,510
Anderson to sue me a number of times

1982
01:21:27,790 --> 01:21:25,250
because that would open up a lot of lot

1983
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:27,800
of documentation through discovery that

1984
01:21:32,140 --> 01:21:30,050
would and some of the Gerald Anderson

1985
01:21:32,419 --> 01:21:32,150
controversy yeah you mentioned that the

1986
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:32,429
top

1987
01:21:38,180 --> 01:21:35,489
the show got the the phone bill ready

1988
01:21:39,919 --> 01:21:38,190
for so I mean that's pretty well he I

1989
01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:39,929
believe the absolute defense I say

1990
01:21:42,620 --> 01:21:41,250
Gerald Anderson is a liar and here's a

1991
01:21:45,020 --> 01:21:42,630
document before that what pretty well

1992
01:21:46,850 --> 01:21:45,030
say well yeah thirty ends and he is on

1993
01:21:48,470 --> 01:21:46,860
the field well ashamed by the way he

1994
01:21:50,360 --> 01:21:48,480
claimed to be a Navy SEAL and they they

1995
01:21:51,860 --> 01:21:50,370
know he never was the only seal and I

1996
01:21:53,810 --> 01:21:51,870
care about his goslings

1997
01:21:55,280 --> 01:21:53,820
and if nobody if you guys don't know

1998
01:21:57,740 --> 01:21:55,290
what Gosling's is you're just drinking

1999
01:22:01,399 --> 01:21:57,750
the wrong kind of rum is is all I have

2000
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:01,409
to say speaking of now I now get a bunch

2001
01:22:08,450 --> 01:22:03,570
of angry US Navy SEALs coming after me

2002
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:08,460
and saying wait a minute you've yeah we

2003
01:22:12,430 --> 01:22:10,770
get Canadian Joint Task Force something

2004
01:22:15,110 --> 01:22:12,440
I'll just sick them on him or whatever

2005
01:22:17,660 --> 01:22:15,120
great that just made it worse speaking

2006
01:22:20,270 --> 01:22:17,670
of disinformation agents Kevin real ones

2007
01:22:22,370 --> 01:22:20,280
as opposed to fake ones like us bill

2008
01:22:24,380 --> 01:22:22,380
Moore and I'm not saying bill is a

2009
01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:24,390
disinformation agent or not but seems

2010
01:22:28,310 --> 01:22:26,400
how we talked to Ben about mj-12 earlier

2011
01:22:29,959 --> 01:22:28,320
and seems how we've talked a bit about

2012
01:22:32,540 --> 01:22:29,969
the Roswell incident and a bit about

2013
01:22:35,990 --> 01:22:32,550
disinformation all of which touch upon

2014
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:36,000
one William Moore perhaps you could tell

2015
01:22:39,260 --> 01:22:37,770
us a bit about Bill Moore and your

2016
01:22:40,520 --> 01:22:39,270
interactions with them I know this is

2017
01:22:43,399 --> 01:22:40,530
one of the things Greg Bishop and I

2018
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:43,409
disagree on is Bill Morris role in

2019
01:22:50,750 --> 01:22:47,010
ufology and his relationship with eff

2020
01:22:52,700 --> 01:22:50,760
OSI and government Intel and also

2021
01:22:55,100 --> 01:22:52,710
potentially his relationship with mj-12

2022
01:22:56,899 --> 01:22:55,110
in the creation thereof so perhaps you

2023
01:22:58,160 --> 01:22:56,909
could talk a bit about Bill Moore maybe

2024
01:22:59,209 --> 01:22:58,170
this will be your opportunity to get

2025
01:23:02,510 --> 01:22:59,219
sued I don't know

2026
01:23:04,729 --> 01:23:02,520
and how he related to Roswell and mj-12

2027
01:23:07,070 --> 01:23:04,739
and everything that was going on in the

2028
01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:07,080
late 70s and then through the 1980s take

2029
01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:13,130
us back in time if you will yes yes you

2030
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:15,810
things that I wanted to talk and mention

2031
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:18,570
and she brought it up was more had been

2032
01:23:22,939 --> 01:23:21,449
or had gotten involved with a parolee

2033
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:22,949
arrow phenomenal research organization

2034
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:25,290
there were engines in Arizona and I

2035
01:23:30,860 --> 01:23:28,770
guess he was working I'd say highly

2036
01:23:32,660 --> 01:23:30,870
placed in a Perot which I'm not sure

2037
01:23:34,700 --> 01:23:32,670
what that would mean but was in

2038
01:23:37,939 --> 01:23:34,710
communication with him and he had said

2039
01:23:40,550 --> 01:23:37,949
in some documents that he was supplying

2040
01:23:42,590 --> 01:23:40,560
the Air Force with information on

2041
01:23:44,990 --> 01:23:42,600
ufologists through his connections with

2042
01:23:46,040 --> 01:23:45,000
after all but the Air Force seemed to be

2043
01:23:48,830 --> 01:23:46,050
getting more information

2044
01:23:49,669 --> 01:23:48,840
he was supplying and he thought I was

2045
01:23:51,740 --> 01:23:49,679
the other one

2046
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:51,750
supplying the information so there's

2047
01:23:55,069 --> 01:23:53,130
Bill Moore suggesting on a government

2048
01:23:57,799 --> 01:23:55,079
agent of some kind which of course is

2049
01:24:00,260 --> 01:23:57,809
blatantly not true I was not they did

2050
01:24:04,370 --> 01:24:00,270
not and have not would not but that's a

2051
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:04,380
whole nother argument more started after

2052
01:24:08,629 --> 01:24:07,050
the Roswell incident book came out more

2053
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:08,639
continued as research I know he was

2054
01:24:14,540 --> 01:24:11,610
planning to write a book with Bob Pratt

2055
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:14,550
and Richard Doty Richard Doty had been

2056
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:16,530
an OSI agent who had lost his

2057
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:18,960
certification for some reason in Europe

2058
01:24:24,290 --> 01:24:21,570
and ended up as the senior NCO at a mess

2059
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:24,300
hall at Kirkland Air Force Base but they

2060
01:24:30,290 --> 01:24:26,610
were gonna do a book and in the book

2061
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:30,300
there was something mj-12 first surfaces

2062
01:24:34,459 --> 01:24:32,130
in this work of fiction they were going

2063
01:24:36,350 --> 01:24:34,469
to do Platt was the main writer on it

2064
01:24:39,770 --> 01:24:36,360
and they were feeding information to him

2065
01:24:41,810 --> 01:24:39,780
and Dodi was there to - I guess advise

2066
01:24:45,649 --> 01:24:41,820
on how military functions in these

2067
01:24:47,270 --> 01:24:45,659
things Fillmore had said and Stan

2068
01:24:48,890 --> 01:24:47,280
Friedman actually confirmed this to me

2069
01:24:51,290 --> 01:24:48,900
and ain't now denies that he did video

2070
01:24:53,180 --> 01:24:51,300
but Brad sparks had also said the same

2071
01:24:54,830 --> 01:24:53,190
thing this and that bill Morin said that

2072
01:24:56,540 --> 01:24:54,840
he had come up against the wall on his

2073
01:24:57,890 --> 01:24:56,550
wrong on that position I was thinking

2074
01:25:00,770 --> 01:24:57,900
about creating some kind of a document

2075
01:25:05,890 --> 01:25:00,780
that he could present that would allow

2076
01:25:08,629 --> 01:25:05,900
people to talk about so lo and behold

2077
01:25:10,700 --> 01:25:08,639
several years later out comes this mj-12

2078
01:25:13,129 --> 01:25:10,710
document which was sent at jamee shandur

2079
01:25:15,649 --> 01:25:13,139
a UFO research and nobody had ever heard

2080
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:15,659
of until the MDL paper showed up at his

2081
01:25:20,060 --> 01:25:18,210
house on undeveloped film they developed

2082
01:25:22,010 --> 01:25:20,070
a film and there's the mj-12 document

2083
01:25:24,379 --> 01:25:22,020
the interesting thing about the mj-12

2084
01:25:28,010 --> 01:25:24,389
document is it reflects the state of

2085
01:25:31,129 --> 01:25:28,020
ufology in the early 1980s but is not

2086
01:25:33,890 --> 01:25:31,139
reflect the truth as it would have been

2087
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:33,900
in 1952 or the truth as it is today so

2088
01:25:39,229 --> 01:25:36,449
the document is flawed by it

2089
01:25:41,390 --> 01:25:39,239
I guess anachronism for nine from from

2090
01:25:43,220 --> 01:25:41,400
nineteen eighty two more of course

2091
01:25:45,500 --> 01:25:43,230
denies he had anything to do with it but

2092
01:25:47,270 --> 01:25:45,510
more in his investigation of it now says

2093
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:47,280
that he's pretty well convinced that the

2094
01:25:53,180 --> 01:25:49,530
document is a hoax which i think is

2095
01:25:54,410 --> 01:25:53,190
funny so we've got the the document

2096
01:25:57,560 --> 01:25:54,420
coming out reflecting the state of

2097
01:25:59,510 --> 01:25:57,570
ufology in 1982 and that's the kind of

2098
01:26:01,910 --> 01:25:59,520
the link we draw back to the Willingham

2099
01:26:05,450 --> 01:26:01,920
because this is a time that szekely

2100
01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:05,460
pushing the Del Rio crash shekel has

2101
01:26:10,250 --> 01:26:08,730
selected the date of 6 December 1950

2102
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:10,260
that's the date that shows up in the

2103
01:26:14,930 --> 01:26:12,930
mj-12 document and button suggests the

2104
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:14,940
object was pretty much incinerated which

2105
01:26:19,940 --> 01:26:17,370
would negate cycle being able to do

2106
01:26:22,070 --> 01:26:19,950
anything with it but if Del Rio is a

2107
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:22,080
hoax that try to negate the whole

2108
01:26:28,070 --> 01:26:25,650
document so more I think in 1989 came

2109
01:26:30,650 --> 01:26:28,080
out and said that he had been working

2110
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:30,660
with the air force feeding this

2111
01:26:34,970 --> 01:26:32,970
information into the UFO community that

2112
01:26:37,660 --> 01:26:34,980
included I think some of the stuff on

2113
01:26:41,630 --> 01:26:37,670
cattle mutilations he was talking about

2114
01:26:43,550 --> 01:26:41,640
the stuff that he said to John Lear son

2115
01:26:46,510 --> 01:26:43,560
of Bill Lee or the guy with the jet guy

2116
01:26:50,030 --> 01:26:46,520
and some of the dark aspects of

2117
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:50,040
mythology that he had said that stuff to

2118
01:26:56,440 --> 01:26:52,530
to Lear and Cooper and a couple of other

2119
01:27:00,610 --> 01:26:56,450
people he had been involved with

2120
01:27:03,260 --> 01:27:00,620
harassing Paul bennewitz who was a

2121
01:27:05,930 --> 01:27:03,270
scientist researcher and vendor living

2122
01:27:08,420 --> 01:27:05,940
in Kirtland or in Albuquerque who

2123
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:08,430
apparently had been advertently tapped

2124
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:11,130
into some of the low-frequency radio

2125
01:27:15,980 --> 01:27:13,130
communications that were being done and

2126
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:15,990
so Moore says what what he had done was

2127
01:27:19,300 --> 01:27:17,850
feed some of this stuff to bennewitz and

2128
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:19,310
they would sneak into his house

2129
01:27:22,970 --> 01:27:21,570
rearrange the furniture and do all these

2130
01:27:26,420 --> 01:27:22,980
sorts of things to drive better with

2131
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:26,430
maps so some more confessed to a roll

2132
01:27:32,690 --> 01:27:30,090
with Air Force OSI and being an agent of

2133
01:27:35,210 --> 01:27:32,700
disinformation which pretty well cut his

2134
01:27:37,430 --> 01:27:35,220
throat in ufology I just don't think

2135
01:27:39,170 --> 01:27:37,440
that's true I think I don't think we had

2136
01:27:39,950 --> 01:27:39,180
that kind of a role that he was working

2137
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:39,960
for the government

2138
01:27:45,050 --> 01:27:42,210
I've often believed that the government

2139
01:27:47,990 --> 01:27:45,060
if there was a if there was a branch of

2140
01:27:50,270 --> 01:27:48,000
OSI to deal with ufology they would just

2141
01:27:52,190 --> 01:27:50,280
sit back and let us let us run because

2142
01:27:53,660 --> 01:27:52,200
we do it to ourselves all the time

2143
01:27:56,930 --> 01:27:53,670
excusing each other being government

2144
01:27:59,800 --> 01:27:56,940
agent Bill Moore creating documents

2145
01:28:02,300 --> 01:27:59,810
supposedly to to further his

2146
01:28:04,370 --> 01:28:02,310
investigation feeding information to one

2147
01:28:06,470 --> 01:28:04,380
another feeding bad information all over

2148
01:28:08,090 --> 01:28:06,480
the place if I was if I was in charge of

2149
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:08,100
that operation I just be pointing these

2150
01:28:10,550 --> 01:28:10,050
things yeah I was my plan see how well

2151
01:28:12,779 --> 01:28:10,560
it worked

2152
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:12,789
mj-12 diverted ufology

2153
01:28:19,199 --> 01:28:15,449
twenty-five years now for 30 years now

2154
01:28:23,699 --> 01:28:19,209
so with the bill more stuff I think I

2155
01:28:27,719 --> 01:28:23,709
just I'm not real impressed with what he

2156
01:28:29,159 --> 01:28:27,729
said he was one of the mainstays in the

2157
01:28:30,779 --> 01:28:29,169
Philadelphia Experiment the book was

2158
01:28:33,329 --> 01:28:30,789
that Charles Berliner is one in there

2159
01:28:35,309 --> 01:28:33,339
that had had me laughing I have written

2160
01:28:36,869 --> 01:28:35,319
the article I wrote about the allende

2161
01:28:40,619 --> 01:28:36,879
letters I get under the pen name we are

2162
01:28:43,319 --> 01:28:40,629
strong and in the end they are in the

2163
01:28:45,089 --> 01:28:43,329
Philadelphia spirit there's a there's a

2164
01:28:46,619 --> 01:28:45,099
paragraph in there that says this guy

2165
01:28:48,449 --> 01:28:46,629
named B are strong who claims to be a

2166
01:28:52,169 --> 01:28:48,459
close personal friend of Kevin Randall

2167
01:28:54,449 --> 01:28:52,179
oh it's me guys so they got that they

2168
01:28:56,369 --> 01:28:54,459
got that point wrong but there's a lot

2169
01:28:59,250 --> 01:28:56,379
of problems with the conclusions that

2170
01:29:00,959 --> 01:28:59,260
Moore has drawn and some of the leaps of

2171
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:00,969
logic that he makes that I don't think

2172
01:29:04,799 --> 01:29:03,010
are followed by the evidence he has and

2173
01:29:07,020 --> 01:29:04,809
then he claimed to be a government agent

2174
01:29:08,759 --> 01:29:07,030
the government disinformation agent I

2175
01:29:11,390 --> 01:29:08,769
just don't believe that true either the

2176
01:29:14,929 --> 01:29:11,400
thing was just making it all up

2177
01:29:17,909 --> 01:29:14,939
[Music]

2178
01:29:19,979 --> 01:29:17,919
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2179
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2196
01:30:07,570 --> 01:30:04,770
this is a bear guest you never know

2197
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what's gonna happen next

2198
01:30:13,290 --> 01:30:10,780
[Music]

2199
01:30:15,720 --> 01:30:13,300
we're not making up this Kevin D Randle

2200
01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:15,730
joins us a new book called crash when

2201
01:30:21,420 --> 01:30:18,250
UFOs fall from the sky history of famous

2202
01:30:23,850 --> 01:30:21,430
incidents conspiracies and cover-ups we

2203
01:30:26,190 --> 01:30:23,860
have two co-hosts Paul Kimball and

2204
01:30:28,170 --> 01:30:26,200
Christopher O'Brien and right now we're

2205
01:30:29,670 --> 01:30:28,180
doing a little bit of disassembling of

2206
01:30:30,210 --> 01:30:29,680
some of the things in the field that are

2207
01:30:32,130 --> 01:30:30,220
bogus

2208
01:30:35,310 --> 01:30:32,140
as far as William Moore is concerned

2209
01:30:36,990 --> 01:30:35,320
since he made this admission real or

2210
01:30:39,990 --> 01:30:37,000
imagined those being a government

2211
01:30:43,080 --> 01:30:40,000
disinformation agent is he been out of

2212
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:43,090
it pretty much yes showed up our good

2213
01:30:52,500 --> 01:30:49,350
I wish he was my good friend but that's

2214
01:30:53,820 --> 01:30:52,510
a different story well just so he'd blow

2215
01:30:56,070 --> 01:30:53,830
me money that would be nice

2216
01:30:58,140 --> 01:30:56,080
but he had he put together a magazine

2217
01:31:00,060 --> 01:30:58,150
that lasted for five or six issues and

2218
01:31:03,330 --> 01:31:00,070
more with the editor so and this was

2219
01:31:06,930 --> 01:31:03,340
after sometime after the big admission

2220
01:31:09,150 --> 01:31:06,940
in 1989 more dances in and out of the

2221
01:31:11,910 --> 01:31:09,160
field periodically but after 1989 he

2222
01:31:14,760 --> 01:31:11,920
pretty well was out of the UFO field and

2223
01:31:16,710 --> 01:31:14,770
and and from what he says and he's

2224
01:31:18,660 --> 01:31:16,720
mentioned this in sausage smear a couple

2225
01:31:20,190 --> 01:31:18,670
of times that he's pretty happy being

2226
01:31:23,190 --> 01:31:20,200
out of the UFO field I can certainly

2227
01:31:25,620 --> 01:31:23,200
understand that with the way the field

2228
01:31:28,020 --> 01:31:25,630
operates since that admission at the new

2229
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:28,030
pond conference in Las Vegas in 1989

2230
01:31:32,550 --> 01:31:30,010
there hasn't been a lot heard from Bill

2231
01:31:35,310 --> 01:31:32,560
Moore it's very odd because I suspect

2232
01:31:38,220 --> 01:31:35,320
that if Moore had wanted to come back

2233
01:31:40,860 --> 01:31:38,230
into ufology you know full-scale or

2234
01:31:42,450 --> 01:31:40,870
staying ufology folks full-scale he

2235
01:31:43,950 --> 01:31:42,460
would have taken a hit and a pretty big

2236
01:31:46,170 --> 01:31:43,960
one but eventually tempers would have

2237
01:31:48,330 --> 01:31:46,180
calmed down and if he had come out three

2238
01:31:50,970 --> 01:31:48,340
or four years later with something that

2239
01:31:52,770 --> 01:31:50,980
people wanted to hear you would have

2240
01:31:54,750 --> 01:31:52,780
heard people apologizing for the fact

2241
01:31:57,060 --> 01:31:54,760
that Bill Moore even if he wasn't a

2242
01:31:59,340 --> 01:31:57,070
disinformation agent certainly didn't do

2243
01:32:01,950 --> 01:31:59,350
you know he did some very not nice

2244
01:32:04,140 --> 01:32:01,960
things to Paul bennewitz participated in

2245
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:04,150
I think at least participate in the

2246
01:32:09,270 --> 01:32:07,330
mj-12 hoax and we've seen that Kevin and

2247
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:09,280
I know this is gonna be a painful moment

2248
01:32:15,540 --> 01:32:12,610
for you but painful yeah well you know

2249
01:32:17,940 --> 01:32:15,550
where I'm going then Don Schmitt I sat

2250
01:32:20,490 --> 01:32:17,950
on a panel at the X conference to my

2251
01:32:22,270 --> 01:32:20,500
lasting shame next to Nick Pope on one

2252
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:22,280
side which was a good thing the two

2253
01:32:26,710 --> 01:32:24,050
people down there was Don Schmidt I

2254
01:32:28,660 --> 01:32:26,720
thought this was 2007 and I thought and

2255
01:32:30,700 --> 01:32:28,670
he was there it's the Roswell expert

2256
01:32:31,150 --> 01:32:30,710
whatever you think of Roswell I'm just

2257
01:32:33,100 --> 01:32:31,160
thinking

2258
01:32:35,500 --> 01:32:33,110
shouldn't that be Kevin Randall or Sam

2259
01:32:36,970 --> 01:32:35,510
Friedman or you know a legitimate

2260
01:32:38,350 --> 01:32:36,980
Roswell researcher whether you think

2261
01:32:40,330 --> 01:32:38,360
they're right or wrong but no there's

2262
01:32:43,000 --> 01:32:40,340
Don Schmidt working with Tom Kerry

2263
01:32:45,670 --> 01:32:43,010
releasing new books about Roswell going

2264
01:32:48,790 --> 01:32:45,680
on the radio and viewed as credible by a

2265
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:48,800
lot of people in ufology explain that to

2266
01:32:54,880 --> 01:32:51,050
me Kevin explained how a guy like Don

2267
01:32:57,730 --> 01:32:54,890
Schmidt still gets a hearing period

2268
01:32:59,500 --> 01:32:57,740
because it's because and it goes back to

2269
01:33:02,860 --> 01:32:59,510
what Paul Kimball had said which is the

2270
01:33:04,990 --> 01:33:02,870
will believe as long as you say what

2271
01:33:07,030 --> 01:33:05,000
people want to hear whether you believe

2272
01:33:11,550 --> 01:33:07,040
it or not I guess you're gonna be a

2273
01:33:14,290 --> 01:33:11,560
popular figure in ufology yes you take a

2274
01:33:16,930 --> 01:33:14,300
scientific point of view which I try to

2275
01:33:19,360 --> 01:33:16,940
do I'm not always successful but what I

2276
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:19,370
try to do you're gonna find yourself on

2277
01:33:26,620 --> 01:33:23,290
the out I mean everybody knows I think

2278
01:33:29,140 --> 01:33:26,630
alien abduction is explainable in

2279
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:29,150
terrestrial terms there is not this

2280
01:33:35,410 --> 01:33:32,330
great alien conspiracy to deduct abduct

2281
01:33:38,890 --> 01:33:35,420
human people an experiment on and yet

2282
01:33:40,540 --> 01:33:38,900
I'm the bad guy because I say that and

2283
01:33:43,690 --> 01:33:40,550
people don't want to hear that if I

2284
01:33:47,590 --> 01:33:43,700
embrace alien abduction if I invest in

2285
01:33:51,580 --> 01:33:47,600
embrace crop circle if I embraced as pop

2286
01:33:53,740 --> 01:33:51,590
if I embrace this nonsensical shoot-down

2287
01:33:55,810 --> 01:33:53,750
book where the the Air Force and the

2288
01:33:58,420 --> 01:33:55,820
aliens are having great gun battles over

2289
01:34:01,780 --> 01:33:58,430
the Atlantic I would be a much more

2290
01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:01,790
popular individual in ufology but I sat

2291
01:34:05,230 --> 01:34:03,170
there and thought I don't really care to

2292
01:34:07,810 --> 01:34:05,240
be a popular individual and ufology I

2293
01:34:10,390 --> 01:34:07,820
would like to know what the truth is so

2294
01:34:12,370 --> 01:34:10,400
that's the problem and I and you're

2295
01:34:15,340 --> 01:34:12,380
actually right had Bill Moore wanted to

2296
01:34:18,730 --> 01:34:15,350
come back into the field after after he

2297
01:34:20,920 --> 01:34:18,740
literally committed suicide in 1989 he

2298
01:34:22,570 --> 01:34:20,930
could have easily done it and and and

2299
01:34:24,060 --> 01:34:22,580
you see it all the time people are

2300
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:24,070
caught in the most outrageous lies

2301
01:34:28,330 --> 01:34:26,930
exposed and the next thing you know

2302
01:34:31,060 --> 01:34:28,340
they're right back on the lecture

2303
01:34:33,250 --> 01:34:31,070
circuit we forgive we forgives bad

2304
01:34:34,570 --> 01:34:33,260
people maybe too much you know so what

2305
01:34:37,060 --> 01:34:34,580
happens here this happens a lot

2306
01:34:40,360 --> 01:34:37,070
the show business industry someone is

2307
01:34:42,070 --> 01:34:40,370
convicted of a crime and we want to show

2308
01:34:45,190 --> 01:34:42,080
forgiveness we want to show that

2309
01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:45,200
somebody can redeem themselves so maybe

2310
01:34:50,140 --> 01:34:48,290
Robert Downey jr. spends time in jail

2311
01:34:53,080 --> 01:34:50,150
because of his serious drug problems

2312
01:34:55,210 --> 01:34:53,090
whatever he gets out he gets treatment

2313
01:34:57,370 --> 01:34:55,220
and now he's the biggest actor on the

2314
01:34:59,530 --> 01:34:57,380
planet all over again with respect gene

2315
01:35:02,290 --> 01:34:59,540
that's a false comparison Robert Downey

2316
01:35:04,180 --> 01:35:02,300
jr. or somebody like that that's a

2317
01:35:07,300 --> 01:35:04,190
personal problem but it doesn't impact

2318
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:07,310
on his ability to be an actor and a very

2319
01:35:11,260 --> 01:35:08,930
good one but when you deal with people

2320
01:35:14,590 --> 01:35:11,270
like Don Schmidt or bill Moore their

2321
01:35:17,650 --> 01:35:14,600
problems are directly related to their

2322
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:17,660
credibility as UFO researchers they

2323
01:35:23,200 --> 01:35:20,930
continue to get a free pass so it's not

2324
01:35:26,680 --> 01:35:23,210
like a football player who uses drugs

2325
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:26,690
cocaine recreationally that doesn't have

2326
01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:28,010
anything to do with him being a football

2327
01:35:31,270 --> 01:35:28,970
player but if he's using

2328
01:35:33,250 --> 01:35:31,280
performance-enhancing drugs it does

2329
01:35:34,740 --> 01:35:33,260
there is a difference and Bill Moore and

2330
01:35:38,230 --> 01:35:34,750
Don Schmidt of the equivalent of

2331
01:35:42,430 --> 01:35:38,240
baseball players who juiced in the 1990s

2332
01:35:44,830 --> 01:35:42,440
they cheated they lied and yet Schmidt

2333
01:35:47,290 --> 01:35:44,840
still is given a free pass by most

2334
01:35:50,080 --> 01:35:47,300
people and more would be I suspect if he

2335
01:35:52,150 --> 01:35:50,090
if he came back and and I think that's

2336
01:35:54,880 --> 01:35:52,160
shameful and kudos that's why I like

2337
01:35:57,310 --> 01:35:54,890
Kevin and people like him dick Hall was

2338
01:35:59,890 --> 01:35:57,320
one of those guys never concerned about

2339
01:36:01,840 --> 01:35:59,900
being popular more concerned about

2340
01:36:04,180 --> 01:36:01,850
getting at the truth of the matter even

2341
01:36:05,470 --> 01:36:04,190
if and willing to be wrong to well the

2342
01:36:07,150 --> 01:36:05,480
person who comes back could also say

2343
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:07,160
they were the victim you know maybe

2344
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:09,410
William Moore says I'm back because I

2345
01:36:14,230 --> 01:36:12,290
was victimized by these evil government

2346
01:36:16,930 --> 01:36:14,240
agents who said I was doing something

2347
01:36:19,180 --> 01:36:16,940
positive for my country but now I've

2348
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:19,190
seen the way in the truth let's move on

2349
01:36:26,350 --> 01:36:24,650
but he never did that yeah one of those

2350
01:36:28,660 --> 01:36:26,360
accuse me of being a government agent

2351
01:36:29,950 --> 01:36:28,670
told another chemical that he believed

2352
01:36:33,340 --> 01:36:29,960
that I might be a government agent

2353
01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:33,350
planted on him imagine the irony yes

2354
01:36:40,480 --> 01:36:38,210
that's what I thought I'm not sure if I

2355
01:36:44,260 --> 01:36:40,490
can Randle this it's foolish MIT very

2356
01:36:46,420 --> 01:36:44,270
nice I've been working on a stand-up

2357
01:36:53,140 --> 01:36:46,430
routine that was one of my jokes oh okay

2358
01:36:55,660 --> 01:36:53,150
sit down on that 2007 panel at the X

2359
01:36:57,010 --> 01:36:55,670
conference Schmidt you know I don't want

2360
01:36:58,420 --> 01:36:57,020
to talk about it too much but I find

2361
01:37:00,640 --> 01:36:58,430
this amusing and Kevin you might find

2362
01:37:02,410 --> 01:37:00,650
this amusing he went on and on about how

2363
01:37:04,480 --> 01:37:02,420
we need disclosure because here was Nick

2364
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:04,490
Nick Pope it earlier been talking about

2365
01:37:08,890 --> 01:37:06,650
the United Kingdom's releases of UFO

2366
01:37:10,840 --> 01:37:08,900
documents and Schmidt said we need

2367
01:37:12,850 --> 01:37:10,850
disclosure just like the United Kingdom

2368
01:37:14,710 --> 01:37:12,860
is done and I turned around I looked to

2369
01:37:16,360 --> 01:37:14,720
him and I said well the United States

2370
01:37:18,160 --> 01:37:16,370
has had that it was it happened when

2371
01:37:20,380 --> 01:37:18,170
they released the project Bluebook files

2372
01:37:22,030 --> 01:37:20,390
decades ago and it you know his face

2373
01:37:24,010 --> 01:37:22,040
literally turned white because you know

2374
01:37:25,540 --> 01:37:24,020
the project Bluebook filed releases more

2375
01:37:27,340 --> 01:37:25,550
or less akin to what the united kingdom

2376
01:37:29,710 --> 01:37:27,350
government government has done recently

2377
01:37:31,540 --> 01:37:29,720
with the Amod files you know there's not

2378
01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:31,550
super top secret information in the mod

2379
01:37:35,470 --> 01:37:33,770
files either so you know that's my dodge

2380
01:37:37,210 --> 01:37:35,480
mid encounter and I'm sure we've all had

2381
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:37,220
one they stay spin this stuff that

2382
01:37:42,130 --> 01:37:39,530
people want to hear and I think it's the

2383
01:37:44,110 --> 01:37:42,140
nothing of the personality cult or

2384
01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:44,120
narcissism they don't care about the

2385
01:37:48,130 --> 01:37:46,130
truth they just want 200 people sitting

2386
01:37:51,310 --> 01:37:48,140
in an audience to applaud when they're

2387
01:37:57,190 --> 01:37:51,320
finished 200 paying customers yeah

2388
01:38:00,400 --> 01:37:57,200
pathetic who is convicted of child

2389
01:38:03,850 --> 01:38:00,410
molestation well yes they possibly say

2390
01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:03,860
that we'd want to hear even even if he

2391
01:38:09,310 --> 01:38:06,410
was on the inside and I knew everything

2392
01:38:11,590 --> 01:38:09,320
why would we believe this guy and you

2393
01:38:14,380 --> 01:38:11,600
know he still shows up unless he's all

2394
01:38:15,820 --> 01:38:14,390
the time and just so folks know and I

2395
01:38:17,770 --> 01:38:15,830
have no problem saying his name because

2396
01:38:20,920 --> 01:38:17,780
it's public record wendell stevens right

2397
01:38:22,570 --> 01:38:20,930
and so he's popular because he goes and

2398
01:38:24,610 --> 01:38:22,580
he spouts the billy meier story at

2399
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:24,620
certain conferences and I been at those

2400
01:38:28,030 --> 01:38:26,570
conferences because I find these

2401
01:38:30,010 --> 01:38:28,040
conferences fun and amusing and

2402
01:38:31,900 --> 01:38:30,020
sometimes you get good speakers I

2403
01:38:34,270 --> 01:38:31,910
remember one I was there Don Leger was

2404
01:38:36,850 --> 01:38:34,280
speaking about shag harbour so there you

2405
01:38:38,770 --> 01:38:36,860
have a very credible man and he is Don

2406
01:38:40,630 --> 01:38:38,780
Ledger's good friend of mine and then

2407
01:38:42,820 --> 01:38:40,640
you have Wendell Stevens speaking about

2408
01:38:44,260 --> 01:38:42,830
the mill the Billy Meyer case and so you

2409
01:38:46,060 --> 01:38:44,270
go up to people and you ask them well

2410
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:46,070
you know you realize Wendell Stevens was

2411
01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:49,610
convicted you know and they go that was

2412
01:38:57,040 --> 01:38:54,770
the government framing him to quiet him

2413
01:39:00,500 --> 01:38:57,050
about the billy meier truth so you know

2414
01:39:02,030 --> 01:39:00,510
what can you do there are never guilty

2415
01:39:05,270 --> 01:39:02,040
I'm gonna stay here for the first time

2416
01:39:07,910 --> 01:39:05,280
then so we can spread the rumor I sleeve

2417
01:39:09,290 --> 01:39:07,920
them I ended up in Iraq was I was

2418
01:39:09,859 --> 01:39:09,300
getting too close to the answers on

2419
01:39:11,810 --> 01:39:09,869
Roswell

2420
01:39:13,700 --> 01:39:11,820
and the only the government could stop

2421
01:39:16,189 --> 01:39:13,710
me was to call me back into the service

2422
01:39:22,189 --> 01:39:16,199
and send me to Iraq hoping you wouldn't

2423
01:39:24,320 --> 01:39:22,199
return you heard his first on the power

2424
01:39:27,590 --> 01:39:24,330
cast ladies and gentlemen write this

2425
01:39:35,629 --> 01:39:27,600
down but don't believe a word of it

2426
01:39:38,689 --> 01:39:35,639
[Music]

2427
01:39:41,240 --> 01:39:38,699
for 58 years fate has provided true

2428
01:39:43,609 --> 01:39:41,250
reports of a strange and unknown fate

2429
01:39:45,470 --> 01:39:43,619
brings you the latest in all aspects of

2430
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:45,480
the paranormal like angels and miracles

2431
01:39:51,500 --> 01:39:49,050
psychic phenomena ghosts UFOs and much

2432
01:39:54,379 --> 01:39:51,510
much more to receive your complimentary

2433
01:39:57,859 --> 01:39:54,389
fate magazine call now at one eight

2434
01:39:58,100 --> 01:39:57,869
hundred seven two eight two seven three

2435
01:40:07,660 --> 01:39:58,110
Oh

2436
01:40:07,670 --> 01:40:16,460
www.wku.edu/oucampus

2437
01:40:48,900 --> 01:40:39,880
[Music]

2438
01:40:52,870 --> 01:40:50,890
we do believe that we have one more

2439
01:40:56,140 --> 01:40:52,880
segment to spend with Kevin Randall

2440
01:40:57,850 --> 01:40:56,150
author crash when UFOs fall from the sky

2441
01:41:01,480 --> 01:40:57,860
a history of famous incidents

2442
01:41:05,170 --> 01:41:01,490
conspiracies and cover-ups twin co-hosts

2443
01:41:08,170 --> 01:41:05,180
far away but certainly top-notch people

2444
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:08,180
we need the best for Kevin Paul Kimball

2445
01:41:12,190 --> 01:41:09,770
and Christopher O'Brien

2446
01:41:14,410 --> 01:41:12,200
now one of the things of course we

2447
01:41:17,440 --> 01:41:14,420
always have to tackle and we talked

2448
01:41:20,910 --> 01:41:17,450
about crashes and retrievals is where is

2449
01:41:25,300 --> 01:41:20,920
this stuff going is there a warehouse 13

2450
01:41:27,730 --> 01:41:25,310
area 51 if we've recovered anything it's

2451
01:41:30,670 --> 01:41:27,740
still there can we believe it can we

2452
01:41:35,650 --> 01:41:30,680
find it warehouse 13 huh you've been

2453
01:41:37,720 --> 01:41:35,660
watching the Sci Fi Channel in talking

2454
01:41:39,010 --> 01:41:37,730
to the witnesses at Roswell we can

2455
01:41:40,420 --> 01:41:39,020
pretty well trace the stuff to

2456
01:41:42,850 --> 01:41:40,430
wright-patterson Air Force Base

2457
01:41:44,440 --> 01:41:42,860
general ekström who was a lieutenant

2458
01:41:46,660 --> 01:41:44,450
colonel at the base at the time later

2459
01:41:47,470 --> 01:41:46,670
became a brigadier general or was the

2460
01:41:49,330 --> 01:41:47,480
base commander at Wright

2461
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:49,340
wright-patterson Air Force Base said

2462
01:41:53,380 --> 01:41:51,050
that the bodies one of them had been

2463
01:41:57,280 --> 01:41:53,390
sent to Lowry Air Force Base in Denver

2464
01:41:59,140 --> 01:41:57,290
because at the time 1947 Lowry had the

2465
01:42:02,200 --> 01:41:59,150
military mortuary service so they were

2466
01:42:04,900 --> 01:42:02,210
they sent a body there to find out the

2467
01:42:08,380 --> 01:42:04,910
best ways to preserve it I have heard

2468
01:42:10,420 --> 01:42:08,390
that one of the bodies had been sent

2469
01:42:11,890 --> 01:42:10,430
through one of the big bases in Florida

2470
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:11,900
I forget the name at the moment but it

2471
01:42:15,790 --> 01:42:13,970
had a big aerospace medical facility

2472
01:42:18,460 --> 01:42:15,800
therefore we're similar types of

2473
01:42:22,180 --> 01:42:18,470
research where we can trace the material

2474
01:42:24,340 --> 01:42:22,190
out of Roswell we traced it to Wright

2475
01:42:27,670 --> 01:42:24,350
Field light Patterson Air Force Base and

2476
01:42:29,170 --> 01:42:27,680
this is based on the testimonies of some

2477
01:42:30,670 --> 01:42:29,180
of the people who are involved in some

2478
01:42:32,170 --> 01:42:30,680
of some of the stuff went to Fort Worth

2479
01:42:34,690 --> 01:42:32,180
first Fort Worth being the headquarters

2480
01:42:36,190 --> 01:42:34,700
for the file name fob group early 8th

2481
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:36,200
Air Force Headquarters apparent minutes

2482
01:42:40,180 --> 01:42:37,370
ago 5:09

2483
01:42:40,900 --> 01:42:40,190
we have also heard and this is this is

2484
01:42:44,020 --> 01:42:40,910
speculative

2485
01:42:46,930 --> 01:42:44,030
it's rumor but it's really kind of neat

2486
01:42:49,840 --> 01:42:46,940
you know that the Navy had a base in the

2487
01:42:52,270 --> 01:42:49,850
Pacific the only entire island and they

2488
01:42:54,129 --> 01:42:52,280
put the stuff all the stuff there

2489
01:42:55,660 --> 01:42:54,139
you had to be in the Navy to get there

2490
01:42:57,549 --> 01:42:55,670
you couldn't be a civilian and just show

2491
01:42:59,680 --> 01:42:57,559
up at the front gate type thing yeah you

2492
01:43:01,330 --> 01:42:59,690
had to be in the Navy to get there I I I

2493
01:43:03,040 --> 01:43:01,340
couldn't say what the island is I

2494
01:43:06,040 --> 01:43:03,050
couldn't tell you where it was and just

2495
01:43:07,330 --> 01:43:06,050
something that we've heard so once the

2496
01:43:10,569 --> 01:43:07,340
material is retrieved

2497
01:43:13,839 --> 01:43:10,579
we the information I have gets it to to

2498
01:43:16,479 --> 01:43:13,849
Ohio would it be at area 51 I've always

2499
01:43:19,060 --> 01:43:16,489
thought area 51 was the location where

2500
01:43:22,419 --> 01:43:19,070
we're working on the next generation of

2501
01:43:25,029 --> 01:43:22,429
military aircraft or UAVs or whatever

2502
01:43:27,669 --> 01:43:25,039
there it's not really involved in any

2503
01:43:30,899 --> 01:43:27,679
kind of alien research but is involved

2504
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:30,909
in top-secret research to advance our

2505
01:43:35,649 --> 01:43:33,650
technologies so that that's the best I

2506
01:43:38,169 --> 01:43:35,659
can tell you is these are this is what

2507
01:43:40,479 --> 01:43:38,179
I've heard we've got people who who were

2508
01:43:42,069 --> 01:43:40,489
right fielded said yad came here we saw

2509
01:43:44,140 --> 01:43:42,079
some of it we were involved in some of

2510
01:43:46,810 --> 01:43:44,150
it we got people in Roswell city it was

2511
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:46,820
sent there but but that's about as far I

2512
01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:49,010
can go with it okay but that of course

2513
01:43:54,790 --> 01:43:52,130
is years and years ago so today in 2010

2514
01:43:57,729 --> 01:43:54,800
where would it be would there even be

2515
01:44:00,879 --> 01:43:57,739
evidence today of advanced technology as

2516
01:44:06,459 --> 01:44:00,889
a result of that I am excluding Colonel

2517
01:44:08,859 --> 01:44:06,469
Corsos book here yes I my speculum has

2518
01:44:10,509 --> 01:44:08,869
only been that at the Air Force and the

2519
01:44:12,489 --> 01:44:10,519
Air Force isn't this clever what a

2520
01:44:14,589 --> 01:44:12,499
lesson at wright-patterson because

2521
01:44:16,390 --> 01:44:14,599
everybody would assume that that's right

2522
01:44:17,589 --> 01:44:16,400
wright-patterson has been outed they

2523
01:44:19,239 --> 01:44:17,599
would have moved it out of there and the

2524
01:44:22,029 --> 01:44:19,249
clever move was would be to leave it

2525
01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:22,039
there III just don't know where they

2526
01:44:26,739 --> 01:44:24,170
would have taken it what basis there's

2527
01:44:29,770 --> 01:44:26,749
the Dugway proving grounds in in Utah

2528
01:44:31,989 --> 01:44:29,780
which is a highly classified research

2529
01:44:33,819 --> 01:44:31,999
center and that's that's the place where

2530
01:44:35,379 --> 01:44:33,829
they inadvertently release some kind of

2531
01:44:37,419 --> 01:44:35,389
a toxic substance into the atmosphere

2532
01:44:39,759 --> 01:44:37,429
and killed up a bunch of a bunch of

2533
01:44:42,219 --> 01:44:39,769
sheep and a couple of a couple of the

2534
01:44:44,589 --> 01:44:42,229
ranchers back in the sixties or

2535
01:44:48,750 --> 01:44:44,599
seventies I think so Dudley Dudley is a

2536
01:44:52,899 --> 01:44:48,760
possibility a highly classified area

2537
01:44:54,969 --> 01:44:52,909
area 51 sure why not I just I just

2538
01:44:57,640 --> 01:44:54,979
really don't know so I'm kind of at a

2539
01:45:00,009 --> 01:44:57,650
loss of if where the stuff would be in

2540
01:45:02,379 --> 01:45:00,019
today's environment what I do know is

2541
01:45:05,590 --> 01:45:02,389
that if you if you retrieved the bodies

2542
01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:05,600
of an alien creature do not

2543
01:45:10,240 --> 01:45:08,210
destroy it because we may not never you

2544
01:45:13,030 --> 01:45:10,250
may never get another one so you want to

2545
01:45:15,250 --> 01:45:13,040
keep you unique sigh illogical samples

2546
01:45:17,500 --> 01:45:15,260
available for research and I would

2547
01:45:21,060 --> 01:45:17,510
assume that if our technology improves

2548
01:45:24,280 --> 01:45:21,070
we imply apply that technology to either

2549
01:45:26,590 --> 01:45:24,290
investigating the makeup of the alien

2550
01:45:28,420 --> 01:45:26,600
creatures or the technology that they

2551
01:45:30,460 --> 01:45:28,430
brought with them so that we could

2552
01:45:32,500 --> 01:45:30,470
understand what they were going on and I

2553
01:45:33,940 --> 01:45:32,510
think in the day's world we would have a

2554
01:45:36,250 --> 01:45:33,950
better chance of understanding that

2555
01:45:38,710 --> 01:45:36,260
technology then we would have the 1947

2556
01:45:40,390 --> 01:45:38,720
if you look at some of the things if we

2557
01:45:42,220 --> 01:45:40,400
took back to 1947

2558
01:45:43,960 --> 01:45:42,230
they'd have no way of understanding if I

2559
01:45:45,370 --> 01:45:43,970
took them a DVD back there they'd have

2560
01:45:48,100 --> 01:45:45,380
no way of understanding that there's all

2561
01:45:50,290 --> 01:45:48,110
kinds of information on that DVD then

2562
01:45:52,360 --> 01:45:50,300
all they'd see is kind of a silvery disc

2563
01:45:53,860 --> 01:45:52,370
or they wouldn't understand what what it

2564
01:45:55,840 --> 01:45:53,870
is what did it contained or how to

2565
01:45:58,570 --> 01:45:55,850
retrieve the information okay but how do

2566
01:46:00,190 --> 01:45:58,580
you keep it secret for six decades can

2567
01:46:03,660 --> 01:46:00,200
we really do that we assume the

2568
01:46:06,700 --> 01:46:03,670
government well yeah we are getting

2569
01:46:09,280 --> 01:46:06,710
eyewitness stories I saw this I saw that

2570
01:46:12,160 --> 01:46:09,290
I heard this but we don't have anything

2571
01:46:15,370 --> 01:46:12,170
to really put our fingers on it's still

2572
01:46:17,200 --> 01:46:15,380
second third parties really we've got

2573
01:46:19,660 --> 01:46:17,210
first hand people who are involved in

2574
01:46:22,420 --> 01:46:19,670
this talking about it and people who are

2575
01:46:24,280 --> 01:46:22,430
credible people who well I'm saying that

2576
01:46:27,160 --> 01:46:24,290
first hand I mean someone sitting there

2577
01:46:29,470 --> 01:46:27,170
in the laboratory dissecting the aliens

2578
01:46:31,780 --> 01:46:29,480
sitting there in an engineering room

2579
01:46:34,180 --> 01:46:31,790
trying to poke into the integrated

2580
01:46:36,490 --> 01:46:34,190
circuit so instead while in Springfield

2581
01:46:38,380 --> 01:46:36,500
in a number of years crash which people

2582
01:46:41,920 --> 01:46:38,390
books talked about people that who told

2583
01:46:46,630 --> 01:46:41,930
him that very thing that they were

2584
01:46:49,900 --> 01:46:46,640
involved with the autopsy the the study

2585
01:46:51,430 --> 01:46:49,910
of the alien creatures so then talk

2586
01:46:54,220 --> 01:46:51,440
about some of those people that

2587
01:46:55,930 --> 01:46:54,230
information is in lems files we don't

2588
01:46:57,850 --> 01:46:55,940
have access to lens files right now but

2589
01:47:01,150 --> 01:46:57,860
that information is there so some of

2590
01:47:02,530 --> 01:47:01,160
what you suggest is around so a few

2591
01:47:05,010 --> 01:47:02,540
cracks here and there there is

2592
01:47:07,630 --> 01:47:05,020
information getting out but certainly

2593
01:47:09,690 --> 01:47:07,640
for the government to keep a secret for

2594
01:47:12,220 --> 01:47:09,700
this long we're going through multiple

2595
01:47:14,680 --> 01:47:12,230
administration's we're going through

2596
01:47:16,600 --> 01:47:14,690
lots of changes of command so is there

2597
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:16,610
one singular agency that might have

2598
01:47:20,830 --> 01:47:19,010
managed all this for so many years

2599
01:47:24,750 --> 01:47:20,840
let's let's look at let's look at

2600
01:47:29,530 --> 01:47:24,760
operation solo this was this was a

2601
01:47:31,690 --> 01:47:29,540
multi-decade FBI investigation of the

2602
01:47:34,479 --> 01:47:31,700
FBI had a man in the Kremlin is what it

2603
01:47:36,729 --> 01:47:34,489
boils down to a guy named Morris childs

2604
01:47:39,970 --> 01:47:36,739
have been a communist in the 1930s

2605
01:47:43,330 --> 01:47:39,980
became dissatisfied with him but but the

2606
01:47:45,280 --> 01:47:43,340
FBI kept him in the Communist Party and

2607
01:47:47,860 --> 01:47:45,290
he became a very high official and he

2608
01:47:51,250 --> 01:47:47,870
would be sent he would be invited to

2609
01:47:53,410 --> 01:47:51,260
Moscow he would be treated to all kinds

2610
01:47:55,840 --> 01:47:53,420
of information in Moscow which he of

2611
01:47:59,350 --> 01:47:55,850
course would then return to the FBI

2612
01:48:02,320 --> 01:47:59,360
the point simply is child's began as

2613
01:48:05,170 --> 01:48:02,330
operations in the 1950s or the 1940s so

2614
01:48:07,450 --> 01:48:05,180
and any and they ended in the 1980s I

2615
01:48:11,080 --> 01:48:07,460
think when he finally retired the only

2616
01:48:13,720 --> 01:48:11,090
president that new child existed was

2617
01:48:16,300 --> 01:48:13,730
Gerald Ford and the only reason he will

2618
01:48:18,460 --> 01:48:16,310
is because Ford was going to meet with

2619
01:48:22,210 --> 01:48:18,470
the Soviet leadership and he was very

2620
01:48:25,479 --> 01:48:22,220
nervous about this meeting and so he was

2621
01:48:27,550 --> 01:48:25,489
told about Morris child's and what the

2622
01:48:29,320 --> 01:48:27,560
FBI had learned from him the guys

2623
01:48:31,570 --> 01:48:29,330
working in the FBI office in New York

2624
01:48:33,700 --> 01:48:31,580
City except for the two or three people

2625
01:48:35,590 --> 01:48:33,710
who directly worked with child none of

2626
01:48:37,090 --> 01:48:35,600
them knew what was going on all of this

2627
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:37,100
came out in a book called Operation

2628
01:48:42,010 --> 01:48:39,530
sulla which is a fascinating read about

2629
01:48:45,250 --> 01:48:42,020
how they kept this secret from everybody

2630
01:48:47,050 --> 01:48:45,260
when Kennedy back down the Soviet childs

2631
01:48:48,790 --> 01:48:47,060
had told people that the Soviets would

2632
01:48:51,610 --> 01:48:48,800
not risk war because they were afraid of

2633
01:48:54,460 --> 01:48:51,620
the atomic capabilities of the United

2634
01:48:57,430 --> 01:48:54,470
States so that when Kennedy back down

2635
01:49:00,130 --> 01:48:57,440
the Soviet it why it wasn't the big

2636
01:49:01,660 --> 01:49:00,140
bluff or the big gamble that a lot of

2637
01:49:03,520 --> 01:49:01,670
people thought it was Kennedy was

2638
01:49:05,170 --> 01:49:03,530
operating with intelligence that had

2639
01:49:09,250 --> 01:49:05,180
been gathered by Morris child's from the

2640
01:49:11,590 --> 01:49:09,260
Soviets during his visit to Moscow and

2641
01:49:14,260 --> 01:49:11,600
so the fact that the point simply is

2642
01:49:16,750 --> 01:49:14,270
eight there can be horrendous secrets

2643
01:49:19,930 --> 01:49:16,760
that people keep they can be known to

2644
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:19,940
people across the spectrum and it's and

2645
01:49:24,610 --> 01:49:21,530
the information just simply is not

2646
01:49:27,630 --> 01:49:24,620
leaked in the public arena until an

2647
01:49:31,660 --> 01:49:27,640
operation Soler ended I think child died

2648
01:49:32,860 --> 01:49:31,670
15 or 20 years ago but that operation

2649
01:49:34,390 --> 01:49:32,870
continued on and one of the

2650
01:49:36,610 --> 01:49:34,400
Christene things is when Kennedy was

2651
01:49:38,680 --> 01:49:36,620
assassinated childs happened to be in

2652
01:49:40,630 --> 01:49:38,690
Moscow at the time and he was in one of

2653
01:49:42,550 --> 01:49:40,640
the meeting with the leadership of the

2654
01:49:45,070 --> 01:49:42,560
Soviet Union when somebody came in and

2655
01:49:46,780 --> 01:49:45,080
told him Kennedy was assassinated and

2656
01:49:48,070 --> 01:49:46,790
the Soviets didn't know the child's

2657
01:49:49,600 --> 01:49:48,080
could speak Russian it was one of the

2658
01:49:51,610 --> 01:49:49,610
things he kept from them and they were

2659
01:49:53,200 --> 01:49:51,620
discussing in Russian well hope the

2660
01:49:55,090 --> 01:49:53,210
Americans don't think we had anything to

2661
01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:55,100
do with that which would suggest there

2662
01:49:59,380 --> 01:49:56,810
was no Soviet involvement in the

2663
01:50:00,310 --> 01:49:59,390
assassination of Kennedy so anyway if

2664
01:50:02,230 --> 01:50:00,320
you get a chance to read the book

2665
01:50:04,450 --> 01:50:02,240
operation solo and it'll kind of give

2666
01:50:06,460 --> 01:50:04,460
you a feeling for how some secret can be

2667
01:50:09,130 --> 01:50:06,470
checked okay we can keep the secrets now

2668
01:50:10,920 --> 01:50:09,140
so does that mean that all these people

2669
01:50:13,000 --> 01:50:10,930
crying for disclosure disclosure

2670
01:50:15,940 --> 01:50:13,010
starting with major Donald Kehoe

2671
01:50:18,130 --> 01:50:15,950
continuing to the present day there is

2672
01:50:20,530 --> 01:50:18,140
something to disclose and some way we

2673
01:50:21,580 --> 01:50:20,540
can possibly get this information or is

2674
01:50:22,960 --> 01:50:21,590
that impossible

2675
01:50:25,240 --> 01:50:22,970
I don't think there's any way that we

2676
01:50:29,260 --> 01:50:25,250
can force disclosure I think the closest

2677
01:50:30,910 --> 01:50:29,270
we came was in the mid-1990s as we were

2678
01:50:32,290 --> 01:50:30,920
talking about Roswell and got a lot of

2679
01:50:34,180 --> 01:50:32,300
people talking about Roswell

2680
01:50:36,580 --> 01:50:34,190
because there was no reason for the Air

2681
01:50:39,370 --> 01:50:36,590
Force to investigate the Roswell case

2682
01:50:40,360 --> 01:50:39,380
again in in nineteen in the 1990s what

2683
01:50:41,890 --> 01:50:40,370
they should have said there's nothing to

2684
01:50:42,760 --> 01:50:41,900
it it's good you know we're gonna do

2685
01:50:44,530 --> 01:50:42,770
nothing to it

2686
01:50:48,010 --> 01:50:44,540
it was a mistake for them to investigate

2687
01:50:49,930 --> 01:50:48,020
at all and so I think the disclosure

2688
01:50:51,550 --> 01:50:49,940
project is going about this completely

2689
01:50:53,260 --> 01:50:51,560
wrong especially because they don't vet

2690
01:50:55,090 --> 01:50:53,270
their whipple so we end up with people

2691
01:50:59,020 --> 01:50:55,100
telling telling wild tales that are

2692
01:51:01,300 --> 01:50:59,030
clearly clearly not true cliffs don't

2693
01:51:04,120 --> 01:51:01,310
talking about 57 varieties of aliens

2694
01:51:07,150 --> 01:51:04,130
what is the channeling what's-his-face

2695
01:51:09,040 --> 01:51:07,160
Heinz ketchup actually gets them right

2696
01:51:12,730 --> 01:51:09,050
of course it's the Heinz ketchup theory

2697
01:51:15,330 --> 01:51:12,740
remember remember McCarthy who was

2698
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:15,340
signed about 57 communists in the in the

2699
01:51:19,990 --> 01:51:17,930
State Department and the and it came

2700
01:51:21,970 --> 01:51:20,000
from Fitz Heinz 57 varieties and then we

2701
01:51:24,430 --> 01:51:21,980
got we got we got Chris don't side about

2702
01:51:25,960 --> 01:51:24,440
57 varieties of aliens they don't let

2703
01:51:27,490 --> 01:51:25,970
these guys and all they do is make the

2704
01:51:29,350 --> 01:51:27,500
job that much harder but it's not going

2705
01:51:30,910 --> 01:51:29,360
to come to that it's going to come the

2706
01:51:33,190 --> 01:51:30,920
closure is gonna happen in a different

2707
01:51:35,470 --> 01:51:33,200
arena in a different way we'll then now

2708
01:51:37,780 --> 01:51:35,480
I'm speculating here so how will it have

2709
01:51:40,390 --> 01:51:37,790
you open the question you opened the

2710
01:51:44,350 --> 01:51:40,400
door let's walk short Kevin well the

2711
01:51:46,590 --> 01:51:44,360
best example is that the aliens land and

2712
01:51:49,660 --> 01:51:46,600
so here we are now deny it

2713
01:51:52,330 --> 01:51:49,670
they'd only to do it if something

2714
01:51:54,790 --> 01:51:52,340
happens where it is in the best interest

2715
01:51:56,890 --> 01:51:54,800
of the government to say yes the aliens

2716
01:52:00,550 --> 01:51:56,900
are here but but it's not going to be

2717
01:52:03,270 --> 01:52:00,560
forced from the outside by us presenting

2718
01:52:06,450 --> 01:52:03,280
people at the National Press Club

2719
01:52:09,180 --> 01:52:06,460
talking about things that are not true

2720
01:52:12,220 --> 01:52:09,190
things that are easily proven to be

2721
01:52:12,790 --> 01:52:12,230
inaccurate to be polite about the whole

2722
01:52:14,500 --> 01:52:12,800
thing

2723
01:52:18,370 --> 01:52:14,510
well I guess I'll never be invited with

2724
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:18,380
you think of all that let's your money

2725
01:52:22,210 --> 01:52:20,570
you're not receiving the Kevin well

2726
01:52:27,820 --> 01:52:22,220
that's okay I'll just stay here in my

2727
01:52:29,130 --> 01:52:27,830
house that might be more fun well even

2728
01:52:32,620 --> 01:52:29,140
if the government did disclose

2729
01:52:35,320 --> 01:52:32,630
everything that they supposedly knew how

2730
01:52:37,360 --> 01:52:35,330
could you believe them after 60 years of

2731
01:52:38,890 --> 01:52:37,370
being lied to it to me it's just it just

2732
01:52:40,990 --> 01:52:38,900
doesn't make any sense

2733
01:52:46,720 --> 01:52:41,000
that anyone thinks that we're gonna get

2734
01:52:48,850 --> 01:52:46,730
anywhere with a a disclosure process can

2735
01:52:59,910 --> 01:52:48,860
we prove a point any other things that

2736
01:53:03,970 --> 01:53:01,900
there's another way of looking at

2737
01:53:05,650 --> 01:53:03,980
disclosure fellas and it's sort of the

2738
01:53:08,020 --> 01:53:05,660
point I made to dawn Schmidt on that

2739
01:53:10,360 --> 01:53:08,030
panel in 2007 when he was talking about

2740
01:53:12,370 --> 01:53:10,370
this kind of disclosure and I was

2741
01:53:14,290 --> 01:53:12,380
talking about look I'm convinced the

2742
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:14,300
government doesn't have a clue and I

2743
01:53:18,820 --> 01:53:16,010
know Kevin this is where you and I might

2744
01:53:21,040 --> 01:53:18,830
differ so the disclosure that you would

2745
01:53:22,810 --> 01:53:21,050
look for is what has happened with the

2746
01:53:24,670 --> 01:53:22,820
Ministry of Defense there's been a

2747
01:53:26,770 --> 01:53:24,680
disclosure of Canadian investigative

2748
01:53:29,110 --> 01:53:26,780
documents over the years Project Blue

2749
01:53:31,120 --> 01:53:29,120
Book files the stuff that they

2750
01:53:34,390 --> 01:53:31,130
investigated the case files that are

2751
01:53:36,940 --> 01:53:34,400
there and then let private citizens go

2752
01:53:38,710 --> 01:53:36,950
and go through those and see if they can

2753
01:53:41,290 --> 01:53:38,720
find things that maybe the Air Force or

2754
01:53:43,690 --> 01:53:41,300
the Navy or whomever investigated it did

2755
01:53:45,610 --> 01:53:43,700
not but I honestly don't think I do not

2756
01:53:47,970 --> 01:53:45,620
rule in fact that I actually believe the

2757
01:53:50,820 --> 01:53:47,980
et explanation is far and away

2758
01:53:53,280 --> 01:53:50,830
the best paranormal investigation

2759
01:53:54,930 --> 01:53:53,290
available ie the non-terrestrial once

2760
01:53:56,550 --> 01:53:54,940
but I also don't think that the

2761
01:53:58,680 --> 01:53:56,560
government knows very much more about

2762
01:54:01,200 --> 01:53:58,690
the nature of the UFO phenomenon than we

2763
01:54:03,090 --> 01:54:01,210
do well all you'd be saying there Paul

2764
01:54:06,630 --> 01:54:03,100
that you don't believe they have the

2765
01:54:08,130 --> 01:54:06,640
crash disks on hand no and I think well

2766
01:54:09,780 --> 01:54:08,140
you know Kevin and I are friends but he

2767
01:54:12,750 --> 01:54:09,790
knows that we politely and respectfully

2768
01:54:14,550 --> 01:54:12,760
disagree on that I keep an open mind if

2769
01:54:17,070 --> 01:54:14,560
somebody could prove to me to my

2770
01:54:19,620 --> 01:54:17,080
satisfaction which I think maybe my

2771
01:54:21,330 --> 01:54:19,630
standards is a bit higher I would have

2772
01:54:23,189 --> 01:54:21,340
to see the crashed alien spacecraft

2773
01:54:25,020 --> 01:54:23,199
frankly I think Sagan was right

2774
01:54:27,390 --> 01:54:25,030
extraordinary claims like that require

2775
01:54:28,290 --> 01:54:27,400
extraordinary proof and in this case if

2776
01:54:30,240 --> 01:54:28,300
you're talking about a crashed

2777
01:54:32,160 --> 01:54:30,250
spacecraft from another world

2778
01:54:34,919 --> 01:54:32,170
I think the extraordinary truth can't be

2779
01:54:37,590 --> 01:54:34,929
witness testimony you know you have to

2780
01:54:38,970 --> 01:54:37,600
have physical evidence and you have to

2781
01:54:41,220 --> 01:54:38,980
be able to examine that physical

2782
01:54:42,900 --> 01:54:41,230
evidence or an alien body one or the

2783
01:54:44,340 --> 01:54:42,910
other and I said well that's physical

2784
01:54:48,840 --> 01:54:44,350
evidence and I think that's what it

2785
01:54:50,640 --> 01:54:48,850
would take to finally prove that we are

2786
01:54:52,770 --> 01:54:50,650
being visited by extraterrestrials and

2787
01:54:54,450 --> 01:54:52,780
they've crashed here but you can still

2788
01:54:58,110 --> 01:54:54,460
say that we've been visited by

2789
01:54:59,790 --> 01:54:58,120
extraterrestrials and not go the crash

2790
01:55:01,590 --> 01:54:59,800
route you can say look the UFOs are up

2791
01:55:04,620 --> 01:55:01,600
there they may well be extraterrestrials

2792
01:55:06,150 --> 01:55:04,630
but we just have no evidence conclusive

2793
01:55:09,240 --> 01:55:06,160
evidence that any of them has crashed

2794
01:55:12,450 --> 01:55:09,250
and so that's sort of my position Pro

2795
01:55:14,850 --> 01:55:12,460
ETH to a point as far as the theory goes

2796
01:55:16,439 --> 01:55:14,860
but when it comes to the crash stuff and

2797
01:55:18,120 --> 01:55:16,449
I think maybe part of the problem is

2798
01:55:21,120 --> 01:55:18,130
there's just so many bad hoaxes and

2799
01:55:23,729 --> 01:55:21,130
stories with crashes Aztek all of that

2800
01:55:25,860 --> 01:55:23,739
stuff that at some point you know it's

2801
01:55:27,360 --> 01:55:25,870
like a tainted witness pool and I know

2802
01:55:30,209 --> 01:55:27,370
people say don't throw the baby out with

2803
01:55:32,400 --> 01:55:30,219
the bathwater but I would just say look

2804
01:55:33,900 --> 01:55:32,410
when you've got so much crap it's hard

2805
01:55:35,370 --> 01:55:33,910
sifting through it and I'm not sure

2806
01:55:38,700 --> 01:55:35,380
there's a real point sifting through it

2807
01:55:41,220 --> 01:55:38,710
I think the better cases our cases like

2808
01:55:42,840 --> 01:55:41,230
RB 47 or the Kelly Johnson sighting

2809
01:55:45,390 --> 01:55:42,850
those are the cases that indicate

2810
01:55:47,669 --> 01:55:45,400
there's a real reality to the UFO

2811
01:55:50,100 --> 01:55:47,679
phenomenon we're studying scientifically

2812
01:55:51,900 --> 01:55:50,110
and so I know Kevin you know that I

2813
01:55:54,660 --> 01:55:51,910
disagree with you I think the crash

2814
01:55:57,030 --> 01:55:54,670
stuff has weighted down ufology for 30

2815
01:55:58,439 --> 01:55:57,040
years now and distracted it from looking

2816
01:56:00,159 --> 01:55:58,449
at some of those what I would consider

2817
01:56:04,540 --> 01:56:00,169
to be better cases

2818
01:56:07,929 --> 01:56:04,550
agree disagree guys like if I was going

2819
01:56:09,520 --> 01:56:07,939
to promote my book shamelessly please in

2820
01:56:11,859 --> 01:56:09,530
fact this is the time I was going to ask

2821
01:56:14,709 --> 01:56:11,869
you Kevin we have a few minutes left

2822
01:56:16,509 --> 01:56:14,719
shamelessly promotes a book I would say

2823
01:56:18,819 --> 01:56:16,519
that that in the book there are there

2824
01:56:21,219 --> 01:56:18,829
are two crash cases that came out of the

2825
01:56:25,359 --> 01:56:21,229
project Bluebook files that are not

2826
01:56:26,949 --> 01:56:25,369
talked about in the in the UFO field so

2827
01:56:28,389 --> 01:56:26,959
here's there's a couple of things where

2828
01:56:31,000 --> 01:56:28,399
you can take a look at Air Force

2829
01:56:32,589 --> 01:56:31,010
investigation of UFO crashes yeah we're

2830
01:56:34,779 --> 01:56:32,599
in the project rubric files which is

2831
01:56:37,359 --> 01:56:34,789
kind of interesting and the other thing

2832
01:56:39,250 --> 01:56:37,369
I wanted to say in that similar vein was

2833
01:56:41,409 --> 01:56:39,260
there's a case which does not relate to

2834
01:56:43,929 --> 01:56:41,419
UFO crashes but there's a woman who

2835
01:56:47,199 --> 01:56:43,939
claimed to have been pasted by a UFO

2836
01:56:49,270 --> 01:56:47,209
back and I think 1954 and it sounds to

2837
01:56:51,189 --> 01:56:49,280
me like the precursor to the abduction

2838
01:56:53,799 --> 01:56:51,199
phenomenon in other words this is the

2839
01:56:55,689 --> 01:56:53,809
Barney body and Betty Jo case except a

2840
01:56:58,989 --> 01:56:55,699
woman didn't undergo hypnotic regression

2841
01:57:00,489 --> 01:56:58,999
to draw out the alien abduction part of

2842
01:57:01,929 --> 01:57:00,499
it so there's there's some very

2843
01:57:04,719 --> 01:57:01,939
interesting stuff in the project

2844
01:57:08,139 --> 01:57:04,729
Bluebook file but you have to read the

2845
01:57:10,569 --> 01:57:08,149
damn cases you can't just look at the

2846
01:57:11,830 --> 01:57:10,579
interesting the the parts that you find

2847
01:57:13,330 --> 01:57:11,840
interesting and let everything else

2848
01:57:15,759 --> 01:57:13,340
going you've got to go through the the

2849
01:57:18,219 --> 01:57:15,769
Case Files completely to see what what

2850
01:57:20,620 --> 01:57:18,229
maybe you have to go beyond the

2851
01:57:22,179 --> 01:57:20,630
summaries absolutely and most of the a

2852
01:57:24,189 --> 01:57:22,189
lot of those cases I'm not sure how much

2853
01:57:26,229 --> 01:57:24,199
of them are available but most of them I

2854
01:57:27,939 --> 01:57:26,239
think are now available online you can

2855
01:57:30,759 --> 01:57:27,949
actually read take a look at the files

2856
01:57:32,139 --> 01:57:30,769
and I can go into my into my library and

2857
01:57:34,870 --> 01:57:32,149
read them on microfilm because I have

2858
01:57:36,850 --> 01:57:34,880
run on microfilm yeah it's one of those

2859
01:57:39,909 --> 01:57:36,860
things again the book is called crash

2860
01:57:41,799 --> 01:57:39,919
when UFOs fall from the sky a history of

2861
01:57:42,339 --> 01:57:41,809
famous incidents conspiracies and

2862
01:57:44,889 --> 01:57:42,349
cover-ups

2863
01:57:46,929 --> 01:57:44,899
Kevin D Randle where do we find more of

2864
01:57:50,529 --> 01:57:46,939
the stuff that you write about you could

2865
01:57:53,409 --> 01:57:50,539
look at wwq and Randle blog spot.com

2866
01:57:56,020 --> 01:57:53,419
which is my blog and if you didn't know

2867
01:57:57,659 --> 01:57:56,030
how to spell Randle which is REM VLA you

2868
01:58:00,310 --> 01:57:57,669
could type in a different perspective

2869
01:58:02,109 --> 01:58:00,320
UFO and that should bring it up on your

2870
01:58:03,879 --> 01:58:02,119
on your search engine right away and

2871
01:58:05,560 --> 01:58:03,889
just click on that and see where we are

2872
01:58:07,959 --> 01:58:05,570
we've got a I'm running a poll right now

2873
01:58:09,669 --> 01:58:07,969
on coincidentally on who believes in the

2874
01:58:11,620 --> 01:58:09,679
alien autopsy film and I can't believe

2875
01:58:13,449 --> 01:58:11,630
two people so far vastly said they

2876
01:58:14,890 --> 01:58:13,459
thought the whole thing is real

2877
01:58:16,839 --> 01:58:14,900
yeah were the ones who made it all up

2878
01:58:19,750 --> 01:58:16,849
Krista Brian where'd we find more of

2879
01:58:22,120 --> 01:58:19,760
your stuff I have a website it's our

2880
01:58:23,529 --> 01:58:22,130
strange planet we do live on a strange

2881
01:58:25,810 --> 01:58:23,539
planet and it does belong to all of us

2882
01:58:28,060 --> 01:58:25,820
so go to our strange planet my entire

2883
01:58:29,500 --> 01:58:28,070
data base from my years of them that's a

2884
01:58:31,709 --> 01:58:29,510
good of work in the San Luis Valley is

2885
01:58:35,040 --> 01:58:31,719
available there and it's free to join

2886
01:58:38,500 --> 01:58:35,050
get access to some of the hidden files

2887
01:58:40,569 --> 01:58:38,510
Paul Campbell where do we find you well

2888
01:58:41,770 --> 01:58:40,579
I would say you could find me at the

2889
01:58:43,870 --> 01:58:41,780
mj-12

2890
01:58:46,330 --> 01:58:43,880
monthly meetings but none of you are

2891
01:58:48,489 --> 01:58:46,340
invited except Kevin and Kevin we've

2892
01:58:50,350 --> 01:58:48,499
been missing you lately so you should

2893
01:58:52,089 --> 01:58:50,360
really come yeah you should really come

2894
01:58:55,000 --> 01:58:52,099
to the next one there's a lot of stuff

2895
01:58:57,189 --> 01:58:55,010
cooking and the pear cast forms I sort

2896
01:59:00,189 --> 01:58:57,199
of frequent there and oh one last thing

2897
01:59:02,560 --> 01:59:00,199
Kevin a guy Jill Fernandez who posts on

2898
01:59:04,449 --> 01:59:02,570
your blog he leaves comments he says say

2899
01:59:06,640 --> 01:59:04,459
hello from a French sceptic about the

2900
01:59:10,779 --> 01:59:06,650
roswell case - Kevin Randle

2901
01:59:13,060 --> 01:59:10,789
so from France Jill has said hello

2902
01:59:15,699 --> 01:59:13,070
or is that dan Aykroyd used to say on

2903
01:59:17,169 --> 01:59:15,709
Saturday Night Live France he's not

2904
01:59:19,330 --> 01:59:17,179
invite to the mj-12 meetings either

2905
01:59:21,549 --> 01:59:19,340
though Paul Kimbo Chris O'Brien

2906
01:59:24,189 --> 01:59:21,559
Kevin Randle thank you for joining us on

2907
01:59:28,600 --> 01:59:24,199
the power cast oh cool thanks Jean yeah

2908
01:59:30,879 --> 01:59:28,610
thank you Jim presentation of making the

2909
01:59:33,340 --> 01:59:30,889
impossible Incorporated tune in next

2910
01:59:34,330 --> 01:59:33,350
week for a new adventure and

2911
01:59:49,040 --> 01:59:34,340
Casta